Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 August 4

= August 4 =

More German questions
Thanks, Dismas |(talk) 02:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) What's the difference between "ihm" and "er"?
 * 2) Can someone give me a better explanation of the word "gern" than Babelfish?  Babelfish translates it as "gladly" but that just doesn't seem to fit the context exactly that I see "gern" used in.  I thought it meant "enjoy" at first but that concept doesn't seem to always fit either.
 * (1) "Ihm" is dative case, "er" is nominative case. (2) "Gern" is an adverb that can indeed be translated literally as "gladly", but that translation isn't always the most idiomatic. Often the best way to translate "gern" is to say "like to" + the verb of the sentence. For example "Ich esse Käse gern", literally "I eat cheese gladly" = "I like to eat cheese"; "Ich schwimme gern", lit. "I swim gladly" = "I like to swim". If the verb is "haben", then "gern haben" is just "like": "Ich hab dich gern" = "I like you". —Angr 05:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Dismas |(talk) 09:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

'Gestalt' as a verb in English
So I was reading Frank Herbert's Dune, and he uses 'gestalt' as a verb quite a few times. I know the German means 'shape' or 'form', and although I looked it up on this wiki I don't understand how it could be used in English. The example I remember is 'he gestalted the room'. Avnas Ishtaroth drop me a line  05:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Having skimmed through Gestalt psychology, Gestalt therapy, and gestalt, I'm coming up empty. It's easy enough to "verb nouns"; I could imaging that "to gestalt a patient" would mean to treat him using gestalt therapy, but I have no idea how you would gestalt a room. Maybe it could mean something like to arrange the furniture in such a way as to focus on the holistic effect of the entire room? (Don't ask me how to do that, though!) Or maybe it means to walk into a room and get a general impression of the entire room at once rather than focusing on one person or object in the room? I'm really just guessing, of course. Knowing the context in which Herbert wrote "He gestalted the room" would help. —Angr 16:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My OED defines Gestalt as An organised whole that is perceived as more than the sum of its parts. If two rooms were divided buy a partition wall, perhaps you could remove the partition and gestalt a bigger room. - X201 (talk) 17:41, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe he meant that he perceived or understood the room in its entirety, rather than its individual components, like grok. Clarityfiend (talk) 17:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't remember that line, and I'd have thought I would've. Would you mind satisfying my curiosity by telling us when it occurs? Algebraist 23:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never come across gestalt used as a verb in English (till now, I mean). However, I've heard it in academic contexts as a rough equivalent for "the totality."  (Business people like to use "synergy" for something similar, usually trying to convince themselves they can lay off people and still produce at least as much work.)  I've also seen a bumper sticker: What part of gestalt don't you understand? OtherDave (talk) 01:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Clarityfiend nailed it. I was puzzled that the dictionary doesn't recognise "gestalt" as a verb, since that's the only way I use it and that's the way two others used it in conversation. Maybe it's a colloquialism? Why would a German word be a colloquialism in New England? This deserves a bit more sussing out. 25 August 2011

Translation from English into Gaelic
Can you translate a few common greetings into Gaelic? Such as; This is my first ever request and I don't know what I'm doing, so any suggestions you can offer will be deeply appreciated. Thanks and Sincerely, Mike Day of Delano  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.33.107.12 (talk) 05:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good morning
 * Hello
 * Goodbye
 * Welcome
 * Thank you
 * God speed.
 * Have you tried Googling 'how to learn Gaelic'? A site like that would have the majority of common phrases. Avnas Ishtaroth drop me a line  06:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Which Gaelic are you interested in, Irish Gaelic or Scottish Gaelic? —Angr 06:28, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Or even Manx Gaelic -- Q Chris (talk) 12:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * One Scottish Gaelic site, with links. OtherDave (talk) 01:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Term of endearment?
What is the origin of the endearment 'chuck' frequently heard around Manchester? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.204.221 (talk) 12:29, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You might find the answer at BBC - Manchester - Voices - The local lingo. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

The Commonest Words in the English Language
Has anyone compiled a list please of, say, the commonest thousand words in use? I was thinking of Pitman shorthand 'busy six hundred' but have tried in vain to find a copy of it. I am aware of the Oxford English corpus top 100 words but was hoping for something larger. Excuse me if this is clearly included on Wikipedia - I have hunted in vain. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.70.221.196 (talk) 13:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You might be interested in the frequency lists at Wiktionary. —Angr 13:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see Most common words in English. -- Wavelength (talk) 14:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My Google search for "most common english words" resulted in a list of useful links to lists of various lengths. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this is the site you want. D AVID Š ENEK 17:40, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Shame about the interface, though. If there's a documented way to download the word list I didn't see it, but here's an undocumented way: first 301, next 301, next 301, etc. Another source which came to mind was Google's n-gram data from a huge corpus of web pages. Their unigram frequencies are surprisingly different from wordcount.org's: I, and, the, you, a, to, uh, that, it, of, know, yeah, in, they, uhhuh, have, but, so, it's, we, ... -- BenRG (talk) 00:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * About.com has a list 1000 Most Common Words in English Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 17:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Hash symbol as number
Is is correct to use a hash symbol for a number, as in "His hit single reached #1 on the pop charts"? I was told that WP:MOS does not allow it. However, I cannot find the reference. Thanks, &mdash; Mattisse (Talk) 13:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see Number sign. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The trouble is that this article does not pertain to the WP:MOS. There is currently a conflict in a FAC nomination over whether # versus number is correct according to WP:MOSNUM. (I was trying to avoid the confusion (and usually lack of response) of trying to find out from the FAC people. &mdash; Mattisse (Talk) 15:44, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The reference desk isn't really the place to be asking questions about Wikipedia policy and style anyway. In the real world, yes, # is a symbol that stands for "number", as discussed in the article Number sign. Whether using it that way is acceptable at Wikipedia is a question for a different page, such as WT:MOSNUM. —Angr 16:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * O.K. Thanks. I was trying to avoid asking the MoS people. Guess I will drop it. Thanks for your help. &mdash; Mattisse  (Talk) 16:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Dutch Scrabble?
Hey i just wanted to know if theres a place i can get a list of all dutch words that would be acceptable for scrabble, ex: no proper nouns or any of that.

I found a long time ago some site that had links to different pages, each containing a space seperated list of all 3,4,5 etc letter words in english, for 2-10 letter words.

Its a little bit more difficult to find dutch for the following reasons:

1. I dont understand Dutch at ALL. 2. I spoke to a friend who is native and he said it would probably be difficult to find, as english is easy only because of its use around the world.

I don't need to understand the words, all i need is a list where there is separation between words so i can tell and be able to put it into my text editor and all that. Can anyone be of help? Thanks. :)

209.240.240.96 (talk) 16:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This is a site that lists all Dutch words, but it has nothing to do with scrabble. D AVID Š ENEK 17:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

At first glance a seemingly helpful find. however, i think their database is messed up?

http://woordenlijst.org/voorvoegsel/b/2 here you can see a list of words under the letter B? it says "21 - 40 uit 7984" at the top, which of course i assume to mean 21-40 of 7984.... so thats 20 words right? but theres only one on there. "baan·tje·rij·den, ww."

any more help? thx <3 209.240.240.178 (talk) 01:16, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, that seems to be a bug. I don't see a way to get a full list of words there. D AVID Š ENEK 15:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

yayyyyy! i found one that works!

http://www.sil.org/americas/suriname/Rediman/National/RedimanNLDict.html

According to a dutch mate of mine, this list does have proper nouns, such as names of countries, so basically i need to grab a friend who would be kind enough to sort those out for me, but at least i have the list finally! I just thought it would be fun to make dutch boggle since i programmed an english boggle for irc and all the non native english people claim an unfair ballpark hehe ;D Thank you for your efforts David. It just took a while of searching i guess. cant remember how i bumped into this site but yeah problem solved! thanks again!

209.240.240.171 (talk) 03:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

IPA symbol - Portuguese
Hello. How can I produce the IPA symbol "w", with a tilde on it? That symbol is used all the time when accurately transcribing the Portuguese nasal diphthong "ão", and I need it to fix quite a few IPA transcriptions all over Wikipedia. Thanks. Hús ö  nd  19:28, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Same for "j" with a tilde. Hús  ö  nd  19:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you sure you don't mean turned m — "ɯ" (close back unrounded vowel) with a tilde? --Cam (talk) 20:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, it's a "w" (used to transcribe e.g. "wash" in English), and a "j" (used to transcribe "yet"), with a tilde. I can't find those two IPA characters anywhere. We use them in Portuguese. Hús  ö  nd  20:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Here: w̃ j̃ - using combining characters. But I don't think there is a standard IPA diacritic for a tilde over a consonant. Are you _sure_ you don't want ɯ̃? Also, our portuguese phonology article says the proper transcription for ão is /ɐ̃ũ/ - do you have references to back up the use of these symbols? --Random832 (contribs) 20:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Using the symbols for semivowels to indicate the second member of diphthongs is very common. ão can be transcribed either or  without any significant difference. Unicode points U+1E7C and U+1E7D are Ṽ, ṽ (V, v with a tilde). I'm not aware of any other precomposed characters of a tilde over a consonant letter. —Angr 21:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S. Except of course ñ, but that doesn't occur in phonetic transcription. —Angr 22:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Portuguese ão is a falling diphthong so it might accurately be transcribed as . However, there's not much difference between  and  and the use of either depends a great deal on the whims of the transcriber so  seems pretty accurate despite being inconsistent with the way ao is being transcribed at various pages on Wikipedia.  Also, AFAIK, the tilde diacritic can be used on any IPA character.  At least, that's what our article on nasalization seems to say.  — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  21:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I've studied linguistics for a few years in college and we would always transcribe the Portuguese nasal diphthongs as follows: ão>ɐ̃w̃, ãe>ɐ̃j̃, õe>õj̃. Always a vowel and a semi-vowel, both bearing a tilde. Thanks for teaching me how to create these characters. Maybe previous users encountered the same difficulty in producing them, thereby opting for a vowel instead of a semi-vowel substitute for the IPA diphthongs. Hús  ö  nd  21:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: I was relieved to discover that the article on Portuguese phonology on the Portuguese Wikipedia corroborates the correct IPA transcription of the Portuguese nasal diphthongs. Hús  ö  nd  21:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In Brazilian Portuguese at least (I don't know about European), also occurs as an allophone of  in words like minha . —Angr 22:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * As someone who's worked a little on Portuguese phonology, I can assure you that using [u] rather than [w] was not the result of technical difficulties. See the talk page for the discussion regarding the diphthongs.  — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  23:29, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

What does 'ffridd hafren primula' mean in Welsh?
It's my pony's Welsh name, would really like to know what it means!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.65.185 (talk) 19:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In Welsh? In Welsh it means 'ffridd hafren primula'. If you are asking what it means in English, then all I can say is that it has something to do with peace. --ChokinBako (talk) 20:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It reads "Mountain-pasture of the Severn Primula". Primula is not Welsh, but a Latin botanical name for the genus containing the primrose plants. The Welsh word for primrose is briallen. Strad (talk) 20:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Anyone able to use the Devanagari script or even better read the Nepali language?
It would be helpful if someone can add the name in the Nepali language to Ma timi bina marihalchhu in the Devanagari script. I presume the name in this film poster at the top is the name of the film given the similarities in colouring etc to the romanisation of the name so provided you have sufficient understanding of how to use the Devanagari script you could hopefully do it even without understanding what it says Nil Einne (talk) 21:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅. But the article's probably about to get deleted anyway. —Angr 05:23, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. You may be right about the deletion. I wanted to see if searching for the name in Nepali found more results but it doesn't, not that it means much Nil Einne (talk) 09:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)