Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 August 7

= August 7 =

Italian translation needed
This is a (fictitious) bibliographic entry from Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies, by Douglas Hofstadter et al. Can anyone provide a translation of the Italian article title and journal title?

Belpatto, Guglielmo Egidio (1890). "L'ipertraduzione esemplificata nel dominio di analogie geografiche". Rivista inesistente di filoscioccosofia, vol. 14, no. 7, pp. 324-271.

68.123.238.140 (talk) 00:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Simplified Hypertranslation in the Dominion of Geographic Analogies", Nonexistent Journal of Philosociosophy vol. 14, no. 7, pp. 324-271. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steewi (talk • contribs) 02:06, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Two minor corrections: "esemplificata" means "exemplified" (not "simplified"), and "filoscioccosofia" has nothing to do with "socio", but rather contains the intrusion "sciocco" meaning "silly"; perhaps I'd translate it as "philosillysophy". ---Sluzzelin talk  02:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Philosillysophy sounds about right, considering that this is a fictitious entry written by someone who loves wordplay. 68.123.238.140 (talk) 22:00, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

cachi-
In the RAE's entry for cachiporra, it lists the etymology "cachi- + porra". What does the prefix cachi- mean? It's not listed, and the only other place I can find it mentioned is here. Nadando (talk) 02:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently, its basic meaning is "almost" (casi). See here. I don't know enough Spanish to have a sense of the exact referent of cachiporra, but perhaps it is shorter than a porra and thus can be considered a "near club". Deor (talk) 02:26, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Edo-era shogi rules
I need help understanding a rule in a shogi variant, concerning the 驢馬. The quote is 「上下踊り二目、踊らざれば一目、猛牛のごとし」, and the explanation is 猛牛は他の駒を越えて動ける駒ではない. I'm not sure I understand either. The context is here. Thanks, kwami (talk) 06:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's another one: 如奔王亦猫刄再度歩兼二行. (The 奔王 and 猫刄 are shogi pieces.) Does this mean the two 猫刄 moves have to be in different directions? This is half Chinese. Help! kwami (talk) 01:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Spanish accents
Are there any tricks to help me know if and where a word needs an accent in Spanish? --212.120.246.239 (talk) 08:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If the word is stressed on any syllable other than one of the last two, the stressed vowel needs an accent mark (e.g. dígamelo). If the word is stressed on the second-to-last syllable (the penult), it only needs an accent mark if the word ends in a consonant letter other than n or s (e.g. Gómez), or if the stressed vowel is "i" immediately followed by another vowel (María). (Unless it's stressed, "i" before a vowel is not considered to be a separate syllable, so a word like Mario is considered to be two syllables, ma-rio, with stress on the penult left unmarked since the word ends in a vowel.) If the word is stressed on the last syllable (the ultima), it needs in accent mark if the word ends in a vowel or in n or s (e.g. Potosí, emoción). Finally, a few monosyllabic words take the accent mark to distinguish them from other words (e.g. mí "me" vs. mi "my"; sí "yes" vs. si "if"; sé "know" vs. se "himself/herself"). That's all the rules I can think of. —Angr 08:55, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Interesting usages
Hi! While reading Upon the Tented Field (letters home (New Jersey) from some US Civil War (1862-65) soldiers) I was struck by a number of phrases that seemed "too recent": one soldier addressing his father as "Pop"; depressed soldiers having "the blues"; an ineffectual soldier is a "dead beat". I would have placed the last two from the Jazz Age. Now the question. When either army destroyed a railroad they put the rails on stacked "sleepers" and, burning them, ruined both. (OK, now the questions) Thanks. Saintrain (talk) 19:55, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) When & why did "tie" replace "sleeper" in the US?  (Or did it?)
 * 2) Is "sleeper" ever used in the US (regional/contextual)?
 * 3) Is it "tie" and/or "sleeper" in Canada/UK/AU/NZ/India/Africa?
 * 4) Are both used in different contexts some places?
 * 'Sleeper' is the correct term in the UK. Algebraist 20:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Also "sleeper" in New Zealand and (IIRC) in Australia. Grutness...wha?  10:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 'Tie' is usual in Canada. Wanderer57 (talk) 21:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sleeper (in railroad terms) has been around for roughly a century when those letters were penned. The OED lists this reference as one of the earliest "1789 BRAND Newcastle II. 687 note, After the road is formed, pieces of timber,..called sleepers, are laid across it... Upon these sleepers other pieces of timber, called rails,..are laid."  Pop as reference to a father appear in print sources during the 1820s.  Dead-beat is US slang and first appears in print around the time the letters. OED cites a reference from 1863 "Cornhill Mag. Jan. 94 ‘Beau’ Hickman [was] a professional pensioner, or, in the elegant phraseology of the place ‘a deadbeat’"  As far as your placing the blues in the Jazz age that almost caught me off guard "The Blues" only first appeared in print in 1912; however, that name comes from a definition of blue that has been around since the 18th century.  Having the blues is a colloquial term that comes from the phase "blue devils" Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 21:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The OED s.v. 'tie', n. 7b: "U.S. A (transverse) railway sleeper.". Its first attestation in that sense is 1857. 'Sleeper' in this sense (meaning 10b.) is attested from 1789, but there is no information about how long it remained in use in the US. --ColinFine (talk) 21:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Neat stuff! I realized, after I saved, that "the blues" must have preceded "The Blues".  And "Pop" is pretty obvious.  I'm surprised about tie, though.  Why would it supplant sleeper?  And in only about 50 years; I've never read sleeper in a Zane Grey etc.  Pullman?
 * Another one that surprised me: "chastity belt" (if memory serves) 1932. Did they even exist until then (figuratively speaking)?  Thanks.  Saintrain (talk) 23:42, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Chastity belt. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Sleeper" in the Pullman sense comes from "sleeping car." George Pullman is credited with their invention.  For many years, the Pullman company managed its own sleeping cars.  Hence "Pullman porter" originally meant a sleeping car porter employed by the Pullman company.  Generations of idiots thought it the height of wit to call the porter "George" ("George Pullman porter," get it?).  Ties at one time were called crossties, probably because they tied or linked the rails.  OtherDave (talk) 00:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We need a link to the Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping Car Porters "George". Rmhermen (talk) 03:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sleeper has about 4 railway definitions. Sleeper usually gets used as a short form of sleeping car.  However, in Saintrain's case it looks like the word is being used in a sense of the pieces of wood laid out between the rails of a track Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 21:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Check out Gandy or gandy dancer for more on "sleeper" vs. "ties". DOR (HK) (talk) 02:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Japanese
For a while, I've been wondering about this. For the music album Sorarado, the original title is ソララド, and since there was no apparent translation, romaji was used. However, since the original title is in katakana, that most likely denotes a foreign word, but I can't match it to anything. I've considered solarad and solalad, but both don't turn up anything.--  十  八  21:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Katakana is usually used for foreign words, but not exclusively: it might be used for nonsense sounds, for example. Note also that the name of the last track begins with 'sora' ('sky'). --ColinFine (talk) 22:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I notice ソララド is a soundtrack for a novel/anime called クラナド ("Clannad"). There's probably a connection there. The article lede says that "clannad" was supposed to be an Irish Gaelic word (but isn't actually). Katakana is used for a lot of things besides foreign words (see Katakana), but I think "sorarado" is meant to be either a real foreign word or a made up foreign-sounding word. -- BenRG (talk) 22:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It could possibly be a form of onomatopoeia. I've listened to traditional Japanese folk songs that make ample use onomatopoeia. Perhaps it can also be found in more contemporary music.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 00:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I actually just thought it came from some of the syllables of ド・レ・ミ・ファ・ソ・ラ・ティ・ド. 'Clannad' is the Irish word for 'families', or 'children', as the original Irish band Clannad was made up of two families. Why there is a manga/anime called this, I don't know. There is no Japanese word in my knowledge which is pronounced 'ソララド', and I have heard this type of thing (i.e. using the syllables of the musical scale) a lot in Japanese songs, especially children's songs and 'folk-ish' songs, so I believe that is all it is.--ChokinBako (talk) 14:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)