Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 December 12

= December 12 =

Turkey (the bird) in Turkish?
Does anyone know the word for turkey (the bird) in the Turkish language? If possible a Turkish etymology of that word would also be interesting. As I understand it, the English word for turkey comes from the belief they were imported from the Americas through Turkey. 216.165.24.112 (talk) 06:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you click the Türkçe link under "languages" on the side bar for Turkey (bird) it will get you to Hindi (kuş) which is the Turkish equivalent.  The (mis-)naming of the bird is also explained in the English language article.  (The guinea fowl that turkeys were mistaken to be a subspecies of were imported from Africa via Turkey (country).)  Clicking through the language links you'll find that few (if any) other languages associate the bird with Turkey.  I suppose that some linked it to India (e.g. French Dinde, Turkish Hindi, Polish Indyk) Apparently only the Portugese (peru) had an inkling where it came from. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 07:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * In Arabic, it's called "dik rumi" or "European duck" (more or less, "Rum" refers to the Greek peninsula and beyond). It seems everyone was confused about where the damned bird came from. --Xuxl (talk) 15:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Dīk ديك means "rooster" in Arabic, not "duck"! And another name for Turkey in Arabic is "Ethiopian rooster".--K.C. Tang (talk) 16:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Like Italian pollo d'india ("turkey", literally "chicken of India"), or the so-gosh-darn-cute porcellino d'India ("guinea-pig", "little piglet of India"). Awww, as they say.
 * – ⊥ ¡ɐɔıʇǝo  N  oetica! T– 21:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * According to our article Rūm, the Arabic word most often refers to Anatolia or Turkey. So the Arabic word for turkey would after all mean something like "Turkey rooster".  Marco polo (talk) 01:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * To add to the confusion, it has been suggested that "Turkish" used to mean something like "exotic", much the same as "Chinese" means in "Chinese checkers" or "Chinese handcuffs". The turkey-cock was a cock from foreign parts, never mind exactly where. --Milkbreath (talk) 04:48, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The word 'cheesy'
Do people still use the word 'cheesy' to mean tacky or corny? I'm 37 years old (and live in the US) and I grew up using that word in that manner, but I don't seem to hear many people use it too much any more. If I used the word 'cheesy' in that fashion, would a younger person know that that means? Would I look old? 216.239.234.196 (talk) 14:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't think anything of it if was used - i'm 26 though so no longer in the young category. I don't hear it used though and i've got young cousins/family-members. Not sure what the correct colloquialism would be - I hear 'lame' being used but that's not quite the same meaning as cheesy. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 16:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * See wikt:cheesy. -- Wavelength (talk) 18:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm also no longer in the "young, hip crowd" (if I ever was), but I'd also still use it in that fashion. I will note that these days I frequently see "camp"/"campy" used for equivalent effect. -- 128.104.112.113 (talk) 20:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * My Google News Search for "cheesy" reports about 2,754 results. That indicates some currency.
 * -- Wavelength (talk) 20:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If we're talking US youngsters you may get some eye-rolls because there was a rather annoying ad campaign recently with some obnoxious guy saying "you're cheesy". No idea what the young 'uns would use instead, though.  Maybe you should ask at the entertainment desk, the crowd there seems to be more of that age range. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 20:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It's probably gone into meta-slang like "groovy". A 20-year-old can describe sentiment as "the cheese" going through the roof, and still be relevant, afaik. Julia Rossi (talk) 21:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm 19, and I say "cheesy." Can't speak for all young people, but it seems perfectly normal to me. More so than "corny," which does sound outdated, at least to my ears. Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 23:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm in South Africa and just the other night on one of the major music radio stations, the DJ of the early-evening show targetted at the young adult / teenage market front-announced a song by the Vengaboys as "and now for some cheese" (this radio station is a "contemporary" radio station, and the vengaboys could be considered very cheesy disco). In any case I'm quite young and know that jokes can be "cheesy", and there's such a thing as a cheese grin (an over-the-top classic smile). Of course such a word might be absent from certain corners of the English-speaking world which tend to have their own words for "cool" and "uncool". I'm not sure what the term is for the string of words meaning "cool" or "groovy", but these probably vary all over the world, same as words for "uncool"/"corny"/"lame"/"gay"(sic). How about the words for 'a generally large amount' such as "loads"/"stacks"/"heaps"/"tons"/"lots"/"plenty"/"a million"/"zillions" -- Australians for example almost exclusively says "heaps" (thanks "heaps", or nah, I've got heaps mate) - so too this might be lost on the Americans who might take this to mean an actual 'heap' of something. Rfwoolf (talk) 13:30, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes fellow seffrican - cheesy is definitely a common word down here! Sandman30s (talk) 23:14, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * When asked recently what she might like as a souvenir from a US holiday my 10 year old granddaughter replied "something really cheesy". She meant something laughably tacky. Richard Avery (talk) 08:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Is 'sexed' a verb when refering to gender indentification?
As an undergraduate and a graduate student, I was taught that 'sexed' could not be used as a verb to refer to gender identification, i.e. "He sexed the animals to ensure he had equal numbers of males and females". However, it seems that this usage is becoming more and more common, and although it doesn't seem to be listed in any of the more-prominent dictionaries, I am no longer certain if I should be correct my own students when the used the verb in this context. Any suggestions or comments out there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.102.179 (talk) 18:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know what dictionaries you've been using, but it's in the OED with quotes back to 1878. Algebraist 18:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe what the OP was taught was dictated by ideological rather lexicographical concerns. Malcolm XIV (talk) 19:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never heard it used for people, but definitely for animals, such as chicken sexing. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've not seen it for living people, but it is sometimes used in relation to skeletons. Algebraist 19:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Parallel cousin is an anthropological term denoting consanguinial kin who are in the same descent group as the subject and are from the parent's same-sexed sibling. A cross cousin is from the parent's opposite-sexed sibling. -- Wavelength (talk) 23:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * See Sexed robots. -- Wavelength (talk) 23:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Wavelength, you're not on the same wavelength. 'Same-sexed' tells you nothing about the meaning of 'sexed' (especially not the verb, which was what the OP was asking about), any more than 'left-handed' tells you about 'handed' or 'thick-lipped' about 'lipped'. --ColinFine (talk) 01:01, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If we're talking words, let's not forget that "gender" for "sex" is a jocular euphemism at best and a feminist distortion at worst to many ears even now. It strikes a sour note for those of us who find it rich that the very people apparently the most concerned with sexuality can't bring themselves to say the word "sex" when it's called for. --Milkbreath (talk) 04:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Apropos of this discussion, let me share a lovely quote I read quite independently only last night: The capon is a cockerel made as it were female by the carving away of his gendering stones. It's attributed to "Bartholomeus", who, I presume, is Bartholomeus Anglicus.  That sounds like "gender" was once used as a verb the way "sex" is now, although the expression "gendering stones" gets no Google hits.  High time all us guys now started to refer to our testicles as "gendering stones".  --  JackofOz (talk) 05:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Bartholomaeus Anglicus, of course, wrote in Latin, and I unfortunately don't have a text of the De proprietatibus rerum at hand to see exactly what he said. But I assume that your quotation is from John Trevisa's translation (possibly with the spelling modernized), in which case gendering almost certainly means "engendering"—that is, "begetting" or "involved in procreation"—so that gender there is not used as the verb sex is now. Deor (talk) 06:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Presume not, infidel. :)  No, it was from a much less sophisticated (but for me a much more interesting) tome, Advanced Banter: The QI Book of Quotations (2008, a Quite Interesting book, ed. John Lloyd and John Mitchinson).  It gives no detail of the translator, but presumably they didn't just make it up; the prologue was written by Stephen Fry, who describes his address as "Biarritz, Dublin and Hell". --  JackofOz (talk) 06:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe these are more relevant than the previous links which I posted.
 * Sexing Babies: Will sex selection create a violent world without women? - Reason Magazine
 * Doctors offer illegal baby sexing - Times Online
 * -- Wavelength (talk) 07:21, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * We have an article Human sex ratio... AnonMoos (talk) 00:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Please teacher, my popup says "verb [ trans. ] – 1. determine the sex of : sexing chickens." Julia Rossi (talk) 08:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure it can. A catchphrase in certain MIT subcultures is "No toad sexing". It is presumed to have been started by a grad student who was fed up with her lab work which, in fact, consisted of determining the sex of toads. But the phrase is funny because of the image it brings to mind to those who don't know what "sexing" means. rspεεr (talk) 07:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

That is EXACTLY the problem....many people do not understand the concept. I remember in one committee meeting with my advising professors that I mentioned I was "often able to sex my study animals using binoculars, rather than having to trap them". One of my professors (a Brit, I must add) lowered his spectacles and drolly said "I would VERY MUCH like to see you sexing your animals with binoculars". Since then, I do not use the word as a verb..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.102.179 (talk) 01:14, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what alternative verb you'd now be using. We certainly don't "gender" animals.  You'd have to say "I'm determining the sex of the animals" or some similar long-winded construction.  I don't know what kind of animals you were studying, but maybe your professor was just being a little light-hearted (it doesn't always show on their faces).  Or maybe he felt that manual examination is always necessary to sex an animal.  That's certainly not true of horses and cattle, but maybe you were studying ants.  --  JackofOz (talk) 19:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)