Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 February 11

= February 11 =

English-Latin translation needed
Can anyone please tell me how do you say "Live only for the truth" in Latin? Thanks in advance, folks. 201.253.128.250 (talk) 00:08, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Ago tantum pro verum (?) Retarius | Talk 02:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)(Not my original effort - I was edit-conflicted by Adam when amending from Vivax solo per veritatem Retarius | Talk 02:17, 11 February 2008 (UTC))


 * Not quite...how about "Tantum pro veritate vive", or depending on what "only" is modifying, "pro veritate sola vive". Adam Bishop (talk) 02:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Insert usual Refdesk advice about not getting tattoos in languages you don't understand here... ;) FiggyBee (talk) 04:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I am concerned about the 'C'
I don't Know English and English grammar. But What is '(C)' of Results in Super Tuesday (2008)? I don't Know why those is.(I am Asian) 121.124.4.120 (talk) 03:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the legend, "(C) denotes states and territories holding caucuses." Exactly what they entail, I'm not sure. I believe it involves people congregating around their choice rather than a direct ballot. -- Flyguy649 talk 03:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Anyway, I'm love to World Election.(Japan,Korea,Europe, America...) and Where is the Election Broadcast page or CNN Election page?(History, System....) I search all over the Wikipedia. ParkSH (talk) 04:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not certain if this is what you're looking for, but CNN's election coverage is here. -Elmer Clark (talk) 07:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Looking for a particular word
Some time ago I came across a definition on Wikipedia that I thought was worth remembering, but, as luck would have it, I have forgotten it just as an opportunity to use it has come up.

It was almost certainly an eponym of some sort which was fairly Orwellian in meaning. I believe it referred to the works of an author which were characterised by an anonymous sense of control from higher-up: a sort of manipulative apparatus.

Any help in finding this elusive word would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hitman012 (talk • contribs) 04:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Try Newspeak and list of Newspeak words. The list provides links to synonymous and relevant entries. I remember that Winston had to "upsub antefiling" one time. --Milkbreath (talk) 04:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you mean that the author gives the impression of being a functionary or propagandist, or that the author simply emphasizes the theme of manipulative control? Some possibilities I can think of, with wide-ranging meanings, are Lysenkoist, Draconian, Kafkaesque, McCarthyist, and Stalinist. How exactly was the term used? Lantzytalk 04:46, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Kafkaesque was what I was looking for! (Though upon reading the article, I see that my memory of the definition was slightly off). Thank you both for your rapid responses. hitman012 (talk) 04:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Mac Data Recovery
I've moved this question to the computing reference desk, where it is more likely to get a helpful response. --Richardrj talkemail 10:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Latin i think
Whats the meaning of fresco y apuesto muchacho or fresco y puesto muchacho?--Stylin99 (talk) 11:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's Spanish and it means "cheeky and handsome boy". 194.171.56.13 (talk) 12:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

How do we say preety little girl in spanish?--202.151.193.149 (talk) 13:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * "Muchachita linda", perhaps? —Angr If you've written a quality article... 15:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Or niña bonita. Pallida  Mors  21:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Chiquita bonita or chiquita linda are also completely possible options, although they are used mainly in Rioplatense Spanish. 201.253.134.200 (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In Chile specifically, you can say 'chiquitita linda', 'mina rica', 'chiquita rica'. Steewi (talk) 23:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Summary of Chinese fiction
I am trying to improve upon the section of Zhou Tong (archer) that describes his fictional youth (as portrayed in a comic book). I was recently shown a Chinese page that does a much better job of summarizing his early life than what I currently have. Could someone please translate the following for me?

周侗，陕西人，少年习武，后拜少林派武师谭正芳为师，得少林武术真传，且文武全才. 成年后得到当时地位显赫的包拯赏识，进入军中为军官，后担任京师御拳馆教师. 御拳馆有天地人三席，周侗为“天”字教师，地位最尊，和朝中名将宗泽交好，谭正芳最小的徒弟，后来梁山好汉病尉迟孙立就是得周侗引荐给宗泽，担任了登州兵马都监. 他还有一个师弟，就是祝家庄的武术教师栾廷玉，后来孙立就是利用了这层关系打入祝家庄内部. 因为在朝政上主张抗辽抗金，周侗政治上不得意，因此专心武学，确立了官派正规武术的若干套路，如五步十三枪戳脚，发展自少林的翻子拳，以及周侗棍等. 他悉心传授武功，在御拳馆期间正式收徒二人，一个是玉麒麟卢俊义，一个是豹子头林冲，卢俊义广有田产，不作官，林冲则继承了周侗的地位，继续担任宋军中的八十万禁军教头.

期间周侗还有一个记名徒弟，就是武松. 武松打虎后，县令孙国卿为了巴结权贵，派武松送虎骨膏到京师给高官，武松滞留京师，结识周侗. 周认为武松力大，但是拳术上缺少修为，因此加以指点，可惜二人交往时间太短，仅两个月武松就拜别周侗回乡，此后再未得相见. 武松在拳术武术上的不足，在此后多次暴露，比如斗杀西门庆，拳打蒋门神，都曾经吃过亏. 但是他跟随周侗入御拳馆游历，大长见识，因此西门庆在狮子楼摆出金猫捕鼠的凶险步子，武松虽然不知破法，却识得厉害. 同时，周侗传授武松的鸳鸯腿，也是武松的杀手锏. 这一手奇特的武功被武松传授给了好友金眼彪施恩，也成了施恩的看家功夫. 周侗年老后辞官，在刘光世幕府做过一段幕宾，刘光世军驻河南，因此得以在汤阴县收岳飞为徒. 传说岳飞受周侗翻子拳真传，并加以发展，开创鹰爪翻子门.

It would help if the translator has a knowledge of martial arts styles and noted literary characters. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 21:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * "Zhou Tong, a native of Shaanxi, trained in martial arts in his youth. He later studied under Shaoling school master Tan Zhengfang, learning the true essence of Shaoling martial arts, and was proficient in things both literary and martial. When he grew up, he caught the attention of Bao Zheng, and became an officer in the army, and then a teacher in the Capital Imperial Martial Arts School (御拳馆). There were three chair, named [in order of prestige]] "Heaven", "Earth", and "Person". Zhou Tong occupied the Heaven chair, giving him the highest position. He became good friends with famous general Zong Ze, the youngest student of Tan Zhengfang. Later, Sun Li of the Water Margin was recommended by Zhou Tong to Zong Ze, becoming Superintendant of Forces in Dengzhou."
 * That's the first bit up to "...担任了登州兵马都监. " I'll come back and pick it up again if no-one finishes it before then. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 21:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thankyou. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 23:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

He also had a classmate, who was martial arts instructor Luan Tingyu of the Zhu Jia family clan, Sun Li later took advantage of this relationship to enter the ranks of the Zhu Jia clan. Due to his advocacy of a court policy of resisting the Khitan and the Jurchen, Zhou Tong became dissatisfied with politics and devoted himself to martial arts, establishing several official and authoritative martial arts techniques. These included the five step thirteen lance piercing kick (?), which was a development of the Shao Lin flipping fist (?), the Zhou Tong cudgel, as well as other techniques. He made a concerted effort to transmit his martial efforts, while at the Imperial Marital Arts School (I'll consult the Hucker dictionary tomorrow to see if there is a more appropriate translation) he formally accepted two disciples: one was the Golden Qilin Lu Junyi, the other was Panther Head Lin Chong. Lu Junyi had vast land holdings and did not hold office, but Lin Chong inherited Zhou Tong's position, and continued to serve as the lead instructor for the 800,000 members of the Song army's Imperial Guard.

During this time, Zhou Tong also had an additional disciple whose name was recorded, Wu Song. After Wu Song fought the tiger, county administrator Sun Guoqing, in order to curry favor with influential personages, dispatched Hu Song to present tiger bone balm to senior officials in Kaifeng. During his stay in the capital, [he] made the acquaintance of Zhoutong. Zhou found Wu Song to be a man of great strength, but [felt] that he lacked refinement in his martial technique, he therefore offered guidance [for Wu Song's training]. Unfortunately, these two men only interacted for a brief time, after only two months Wu Song took his leave from Zhou Tong and returned to his home village, the two were never to meet again. Wu Song's deficiency in martial and pugilistic techniques repeatedly manifested itself after his return. He suffered losses in his struggle with Xi Menqing and fight with Jiang Menshen.

Will try to finish the rest tomorrow, g'night! Aas217 (talk) 07:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

但是他跟随周侗入御拳馆游历，大长见识，因此西门庆在狮子楼摆出金猫捕鼠的凶险步子，武松虽然不知破法，却识得厉害. 同时，周侗传授武松的鸳鸯腿，也是武松的杀手锏. 这一手奇特的武功被武松传授给了好友金眼彪施恩，也成了施恩的看家功夫. 周侗年老后辞官，在刘光世幕府做过一段幕宾，刘光世军驻河南，因此得以在汤阴县收岳飞为徒. 传说岳飞受周侗翻子拳真传，并加以发展，开创鹰爪翻子门.


 * "However, his experiences in the Imperial Martial Arts School with Zhou Tong broadened his horizons. Thus when Xi Menqing used the dangerous move "Golden Cat Hunting the Rat" at Lion Pavilion(狮子楼), although Wu Song did not know how to counter it, he recognised its potency. At the same time, the "Mandarin duck leg", which Zhou Tong taught Wu Song, was one of Wu Song's deadliest weapons. This amazing skill was taught by Wu Song to his friend Shi En, and became part of Shi En's special arsenal. When Zhou Tong reached old age, he resigned from office, and served for a time as an advisor to Liu Guangshi. Liu Shiguang's troops were garrisoned in Henan, thus Zhou Tong took on Yue Fei as a student in Tangyin. Legend has it that Yue Fei learned authentic Fanzi Quan (??) from Zhou Tong, and developed it into his Eagle-claw Fanzi Men." --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 21:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you both very much. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 22:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Singular versus plural
We would say, for example, that John is five years old ... or that a bag of flour weighs ten pounds (plural). Why, then, is John called a five-year-old child (singular) ... instead of a five-years-old child (plural)? And why, then, is that bag of flour called a ten-pound bag of flour (singular) ... instead of a ten-pounds bag of flour (plural)? Is not the word "year" pluralized when described by the word "five" ... and is not the word "pound" pluralized when described by the word "ten" ...? Another example: This twenty-dollar item cost me twenty dollars. The seven-year itch takes seven years to surface. Etc. Just curious if anyone knows. Is this some special rule of grammar? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:26, 11 February 2008 (UTC))


 * Well, it's clearly an exception to the normal rules of grammar. It doesn't really make much difference whether you count that as an additional rule or not, does it?  I'd put this sort of thing in the same category as idioms that are exceptions to the normal way that words combine to make meanings, but that article does not say that idioms can violate rules of grammar.  --Anonymous, 22:47 UTC, February 11, 2008.


 * It is neither an exception to the normal rules of grammar, nor an idiom. There is a cross-linguistic tendency for words used attributively to lose grammatical marking (apart from those showing agreement with the head word, in languages with agreement). In English we can see this in phrases such as 'horse racing', 'house prices', and, for that matter 'bookcase'. For some examples in other languages, see Incorporation. --ColinFine (talk) 00:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Also compound. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pallida Mors 76 (talk • contribs) 02:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

These compound words are being used as adjectives, and adjectives in English are invariable. Rhinoracer (talk) 12:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Most modern linguisticians would disagree with you, Rhinoracer: Adjective distinguishes attributive nouns from adjectives. I cannot find a reference right now, but there are various sets of tests for adjectiveness which can be applied to rank a word or phrase as more or less adjectival (Can it be modified by 'very'? Can it be used predicatively? etc). Not all adjectives meet all the tests, but the examples above meet few or none of them.
 * Note also that the tendency I referred to above is just that - it's not a firm rule. There are examples where the modifier does take plural morphology: 'games fair', 'solids modelling' - often in cases where the phrase with the singular would have another possible interpretation. --ColinFine (talk) 23:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)