Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 February 9

= February 9 =

pulling punches
what does pulling any punches mean?67.188.22.239 (talk) 02:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * From the OED: 'to pull one's punches: (fig.) to use less force than one is capable of exerting; to be gentle or lenient, esp. in criticism. Freq. in negative contexts. Similarly to pull no punches: to be unsparingly critical.' Non-figuratively, in boxing it means 'to strike (a blow) with less than full force'. Algebraist 02:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Travelling community
What does it mean?


 * The Equality Authority was established in late 1999, under the Employment Equality Act 1998. It outlaws discrimination 'in employment, vocational training, advertising, collective agreements, the provisions of goods and services and other opportunities to which the public have access on nine distinct grounds'; gender, marital status, family status, age, disability, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, membership of the Travelling community.

Mr.K. (talk) 03:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Presumably, Travellers, but often interchangeable with and including Gypsies and  Romany.  Gwinva (talk) 03:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Correct. Travellers are people with no fixed abode, who travel in campers or otherwise. The word is often used in the sense, more or less, of "gypsies". Travellers therefore constitute a group which, under the provisions of the Act, must not be discriminated against. Bessel Dekker (talk) 03:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, it doesn't include foreigners then? Is discrimination against foreigners ok under the provisions of this law?Mr.K. (talk) 03:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Is that not covered under "race"? BTW, in which country is this authority (and act) present? Gwinva (talk) 04:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It is from Ireland. Britons are of the same race as Irish people. Can they be discriminated?Mr.K. (talk) 05:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In Britain, there are some jobs (e.g. civil servant) for which it is required that you be a British national. Maybe something similar exists in Ireland, which might help to explain why "nationality" is not included in the list of grounds for discrimination outlawed by the Act you cite. --Richardrj talkemail 07:53, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * All this is about equal opportunity for minority groups. However, hardly any country would recognize blanket equal opportunities for foreigners: the right to vote, some claims to education, the right to be assisted by the country's diplomatic service abroad come to mind. While this is only tenuously related to employment, it does amount to differentiation in services available to foreign nationals. Bessel Dekker (talk) 14:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

BTW, now I see that they don't discriminate either based on marital status and family status. Couldn't they just say family status?Mr.K. (talk) 19:54, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Who knows? But sometimes it doesn't hurt to be perfectly explicit, even if it involves redundancy. - Nunh-huh 02:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Elsewhere: 'Family status is understood to mean the status of being related to someone by blood or adoption. Marital status is defined in the Act as “the status of being married, single, widowed, divorced, separated, or living with a person of the opposite sex in a conjugal relationship.”' Bessel Dekker (talk) 15:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

What is the most disgusting short sentence?
What is the most disgusting short sentence, one that would make most English-speaking readers nauseated or even throw up, but at the very least, stop eating if they had been while reading it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.51.122.26 (talk) 10:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * "look, there's half a worm wriggling on your plate" --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 12:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, reminds me of the joke: "What's the only thing worse than finding a worm in your apple? Finding half a worm in your apple!" —Angr If you've written a quality article... 12:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

That's not a disgusting sentence at all. Not one person who read the above line on the Reference Desk even made a face of disgust, let alone actually vomited!

I want something that's disgusting JUST TO READ (no situation necessary!) in the same way as JUST READING a sexy story in playboy can give you a boner. I want a minimum implementation, a short sentence that will actually make someone feel sick and maybe vomit.

By analogy here is a short sentence that will ACTUALLY give some readers a slight boner! God I was glad Jacky was already eighteen -- I had gone so far as to check her ID while she was in the bathroom -- I thought as this sizzling redhead choked down on my hot rod, sucking hard and looking up at me with those longing puppy eyes that make you want to jump out of your skin, caressing my boys with her warm, luscious, beautifully feminine hands

( I made sure it doesn't contain "naughty words" ). So, what's the same sentence that will ACTUALLY make someone NAUSEATED, just by reading it???

Thank you!


 * Well.. your mother telling the room during a Xmas meal that every member of your immediate family has sucked on her nipples at one point in time may put you off your sprouts (and be technically true in cases where the only attendants are your siblings and father). YMMV though. 86.21.74.40 (talk) 14:16, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * that's not so disgusting. Try to do a bit better!  (I think you're on the right track, though...I almost made a face!)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.51.122.26 (talk) 14:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" may not be on the encyclopedic level of the above, but it seems much more disgusting than the quoted Diet of Worms. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I had a friend who said she hated the word "moist." One day I left a message on her voicemail where I said mmmmmmmmmoist.  Like I said, she was my friend.  — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  01:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Generally it would have to be pretty difficult to come up with a sentence that would work in any context. Most things require a bit more context. It's quit hard to gross me out simply with words. To gross English speakers out, sexual taboos are probably your best bet, mentioning incest, extreme paraphilias and associating it with someone they know, because English speakers are often shy of mentioning sexual things directly. It probably won't help you get on with the people you say it to, and it will get you a bad reputation. Steewi (talk) 03:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Sex-related sentences have a relatively strong effect, compared with disgust-related sentences; possibly something to do with the biological imperative. One might be nauseated by the sight of some horrifically violent event, but a textual description of the same thing would probably not have nearly the same intense effect.  For example, an actual image of the maggot-infested disembowelled bloody entrails of a victim would be fairly unsavoury and might turn your stomach, but when I mentioned "maggot-infested disembowelled bloody entrails" just then, did it particularly bother you?  --  JackofOz (talk) 03:31, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Good, we've moved and seconded that there are natural limits to the written word, and that poop and sex are icky. How about some examples? Here's a modest selection, off the top of my head:
 * In a Mike Myers movie, I remember a contest for the grossest thing anyone could think of. I think the winner's had something to do with a used-bandaid hamburger. That's a start. If you happen to have a convenient source of contestants (the younger the better), natural oompetitiveness might produce results.
 * Any half-decent rendition of the Aristocrats will fit the bill, except for the "short" part. Well, I didn't throw up, I laughed, but that's me.
 * This won't work for everyone, but... Have you ever heard nails against a blackboard? S c r eeeeeeeee ch! A few people cringed at that. :)
 * There's a few general points there: steal from the best, conjure up memories that pull in the other senses, and know your audience. Black Carrot (talk) 03:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, since you mention food: describe having your tonsils out. Quote liberally from Cheaper by the Dozen. This should be especially effective if whatever they're eating is red and lumpy. Black Carrot (talk) 03:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Short sentence, though. How about "I spat in that"? Or, to up the ante, "I peed in that"? Or even further? My dad says when Kentucky Fried Movie first came out, there was a clip before it of a guy's face, extreme close-up, saying, "The popcorn you're eating has been pissed in!" Worked every time, apparently. Black Carrot (talk) 04:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, where in the world did you get that excerpt from? Black Carrot (talk) 04:03, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Which excerpt? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.122.117.186 (talk) 11:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

"That's wasn't pea soup, it was my discharge.hotclaws 10:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a complete sentence, but the noun phrase that makes me retch every time I hear it is "President George W. Bush". —Angr If you've written a quality article... 12:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

So it comes down to something a involving sex, food, shit, death, and blood and guts. How about "That's not a hamburger", and let your imagination run riot? If I could have a short tale just like the story of Jacky (the "sizzling redhead" from above), I'm sure I could come up with a few sentences that would make some people sick - but it would be waaaay too disgusting to be published on a highly visible site like this :-)) 87.114.18.114 (talk) 17:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I used to be unable to tell a particular joke involving people coming into a pub and asking for cocktail sticks, followed by one person asking for a straw, without retching early on and having to stop. It's actually making me nearly retch just typing this. YMMV... 130.88.140.112 (talk) 17:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The Dutch writer Jan Wolkers wrote in one of his books about an aunt who had such a severe form of cancer that she "ended up with rotten flesh in her washing towel". (Washandje). Bokkeveltkamp (talk) 13:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Another one: "Thank you for the lovely mushroom soup, dear." "That wasn't mushroom soup, it was milk. Care to guess how old it was? You still had your hair when we bought it..." A ecis Brievenbus 13:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Source of "rh" in spelling
I will be grateful if I can get some opinions or references about the historical linguistic function of the letter "h" in many Greek- or Latin-based nouns like rhapsody, rhinoceros, rheumatism, rhythm, rhyme, Rhine, Rhodes, Rhett, Rhianus, Rhinthon, Rhys, and so on. --Omidinist (talk) 13:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In Ancient Greek and Welsh (Welsh being the origin of the name Rhys in your list), "r" is always voiceless at the beginning of a word. In Greek, this voiceless "r" is spelled ῥ and transliterated "rh" into the Latin alphabet. In Welsh, it's spelled "rh". —Angr If you've written a quality article... 14:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * can't help you there, but i'm reminded of something i've been meaning to ask about. I had a poetry textbook (high school) that consistently spelled "rhyme" as "rime". Is this common - what gives? It was edited by america's poet laureate, too.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.51.122.26 (talk) 14:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Expanding on Angr's correct explanation a little: the Greeks themselves therefore "spelt a sign for h": note the diacritic on top of the : ῥ transcribes as "rh". Bessel Dekker (talk) 14:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Rime is just a slightly archaic spelling variant of rhyme, as in The Rime of the Ancient Mariner and The Rime. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That mark above ρ  (rho) in  ῥ  is not normally thought of as a matter of voicing: it is a rough breathing, equivalent to an /h/ sound such we have in English. In Greek, all words that begin with  ρ  have that: so do all words that begin with  υ  (upsilon):  ὑ  . This explains why we have words from Greek that begin with rh- and hy-, but not with just r- or y-. Vowels apart from  υ  at the beginning of a word (so  α, ε, η, ι, ο, ω  ) must have either this rough breathing (  ἁ, ἑ, ἡ, ἱ, ὁ, ὡ  ) or a smooth breathing, which turns the opposite way (  ἀ, ἐ, ἠ, ἰ, ὀ, ὠ  ). A smooth breathing simply marks the absence of an /h/ sound. Initial diphthongs also need a breathing of one sort or the other: it sits over the second letter:  αἰ , for example. An initial capital has the breathing preceding:  Ὁ  , for example. Other marks (appearing above vowels only, not  ρ  ) are accents, and these may will often be combined with breathings:  ἦ  is a smooth breathing combined with a circumflex, for example.
 * –&thinsp; Noetica ♬♩&thinsp;Talk 23:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * All words that begin with υ, except ὐψιλόν itself. --Lambiam 01:28, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Bingo! I silently predicted that you or Angr would point that out, Lambdoid.
 * We should also say to all our readers that the breathings are not significant in Modern Greek, and are dispensed with in the recent monotonic system. See Greek diacritics.
 * –&thinsp; Noetica ♬♩&thinsp;Talk 01:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

LATIN to ENGLISH translation request.
1. LATIN: Sola Nobilitus Virtus ENGLISH:?? 2. LATIN: Inventus Vitum juvat excoluisse per artes. ENGLISH:?? 3. LATIN: Populus me sibilat, at mihi plaudo Ipse domi simul ac nummos contemplar in arca. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LONGBOW001 (talk • contribs) 17:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * First some formatting and spelling fixes:
 * 1. Sola nobilitas virtus
 * 2. Inventas vitam juvat excoluisse per artes
 * 3. Populus me sibilat, at mihi plaudo / ipse domi simul ac nummos contemplar in arca
 * And then
 * 1. Virtue is the only nobility.
 * 2. From Aeneid Book 6, 663. Used on certain Nobel medals, though the translation given at the Nobel site is poor.
 * 3. Sherlock Holmes! Look it up yourself.
 * –&thinsp; Noetica ♬♩&thinsp;Talk 02:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 3 "The public hisses at me, but I applaude myself in my own house, and simultaneously contemplate the money in my chest." from
 * –&thinsp; Astutebizarre &thinsp;Talk

Tongue Twister
I'm trying to remember a kids' rhyme I learned a long time ago. It was like How Much Wood Could a Woodchuck Chuck, but started with something like "Which witch's watch". Anybody recognize it? Black Carrot (talk) 23:46, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's "Which witch flew which way and which witch watched which witch's watch when which witch flew which way with which witch's watch?" I did a Google search of it, and this was the one that came up first. -- MusicalConnoisseur  Got Classical? 01:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course the difficulty of this one depends on whether your dialect of English has identical pronunciations for "which" and "witch". --Anon, 03:04 UTC, February 10, 2008.


 * Hell, that's not my problem with it! Imagine Reason (talk) 02:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)