Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 June 28

= June 28 =

Celtic language pronunciation
I would like to know how to pronounce heneiniau which is Celtic for great grandmother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.115 (talk) 01:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There's no one "Celtic language pronunciation"; each language has its own particular rules (in some cases different for different dialects). AnonMoos (talk) 03:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Heneiniau is Welsh, which is but one of many Celtic languages. It means "great-grandmothers" (plural); the singular is hennain, which is pronounced [ˈhɛnain]. Strad (talk) 06:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The plural heineiniau ("great-grandmothers") is pronounced or  in northern dialects and  or  in southern dialects. In both cases, the first one listed is used in careful pronunciation and the second one listed is more colloquial. —Angr 07:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * A great many Welsh words don't have a 'correct' pronunciation. The important Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru contains no pronunciations. Xn4  02:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What's that supposed to mean? As in all languages, what is correct in Welsh is determined by what native speakers actually say. —Angr 06:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Request for Danish translation
Could anyone kindly translate the following text into Danish for me, please ? :

Write any questions, feelings, emotions or anything you would like to consult me about school.

Thank you so much... --125.24.12.234 (talk) 14:38, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Google translate gives this:
 * Skriv eventuelle spørgsmål, følelser, følelser eller noget, du gerne vil høre mig om skolen.
 * Machine translations are seldom very good, however, and the sentence is a trifle awkward even in its original form. No doubt someone who speaks Danish can help you better. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:57, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Since there doesn't appear to be any Danes around, I'll have a go. In the machine translation, you may have noticed that Google translates "feelings" and "emotions" identically, "følelser". In Norwegian (which is very similar to Danish), "følelser" would be the most reasonable translation of "emotions". "Feelings" in this context would more reasonably be translated as "synspunkter" (opinions). "Høre mig om skolen" does not make much sense in Norwegian, and probably not in Danish either. I would suggest


 * Skriv eventuelle spørgsmål, synspunkter, følelser eller annet du vil spørge mig om vedrørende skolen.


 * which is Norwegian with Danish spelling, and hopefully better than Google's suggestion. I rephrased the sentence slightly. In English, a word-by-word translation of my version would be


 * Write any questions, opinions, emotions or anything else that you would like to ask me about concerning the school.


 * Note, however, that the translation preserves the awkwardness of the original wording, by asking for questions twice. You might get a better answer if you ask a Danish wikipedian directly on his/her user page. --NorwegianBluetalk 14:13, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Pleas translate this into Danish

thanks,thank you

Vandalize
Can VANDALIZE be something you do to your own property, willfully and intentionally?--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 14:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't use it that way, not even if you were doing it for the insurance money. —Angr 14:54, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I see no reason why not, there may be a better term for it though..87.102.86.73 (talk) 15:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * According to Wiktionary, to vandalize is "to needlessly destroy other people's property" (I added the bold.).--El aprendelenguas (talk) 19:36, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * According to the Oxford English Dictionary, to vandalize is "to destroy or damage (public or private property) maliciously". No mention of whose property; is that meaningful or is there an assumption that of course we're talking about someone else's property?--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 01:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tanstaafl37 (talk • contribs) 00:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What OED are you referring to? I can't find that in the [www.oed.com online edition]. In any case, I'm not sure it's possible to maliciously damage one's own property. Algebraist 01:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Is it possible to be malicious towards oneself or one's own property? Maybe.  --  JackofOz (talk) 01:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Would defacing something of your own that is cherished by someone else (possibly a present from said other), to cause distress to that other person work. The OED reference is from a 2001 hardback edition.--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 01:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Doesn't vandalism imply an illegal act, along the same lines as robbery? Just as you can't illegally steal from yourself, you can't illegally damage your own property.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 01:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Algebraist 01:33, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be the revised Concise Oxford English Dictionary, which is more modern on some things than the OED itself. The OED's entry for vandalism is 'The conduct or spirit characteristic of, or attributed to, the Vandals in respect of culture; ruthless destruction or spoiling of anything beautiful or venerable; in weakened sense, barbarous, ignorant, or inartistic treatment.' Algebraist 01:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * So far malice seems to be the only attachment I can find, no legality or illegality has been required.--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 01:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I should say it is possible to vandalize your own property, but only if it has some special character which gives you a duty to preserve it. (Actually, El aprendelenguas, in some countries you can unlawfully damage your own property, if it's protected by law or by a court order). If you owned an important work of art or an historic building and you wantonly destroyed them, I think that could properly be called vandalism. In the UK, it might also be a criminal offence: for instance, if you altered or demolished your own listed building without the consent of the local planning authority. Xn4  02:28, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The reference mentioned earlier from the concise OED on vandalism is referring to the 'Vandals' which is "an east germanic people that ravaged Gaul, Spain and North Africa and sacked Rome. (Circa A.D.455)"[Websters New World College Dictionary]. While its of interest to note the origins, we still need to nail down wether malice can be applied towards oneself or oneselfs property.  In the case of spite or revenge it would still be physically manifested against yourself, but malicious towards another through the vandalized item.--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 03:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If vandalism requires malice and malice implies spite then you can't vandalise your own property because you can't have spite for yourself. But vandalism doesn't require malice according to Wiktionary. Their definition even mentions "...usually someone else's property or common or shared property." (I added the bold). Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If vandalism is extended to 'erecting a hideous edifice that is judged an eyesore' then yes, you can vandalise your own property because said edifice can be erected on ones own property.


 * And in general yes I can 'vandalise my own property' with out breaking the rules of english - though such an act would no doubt be indicative of a particularily unstable mind.87.102.86.73 (talk) 09:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Doesn't Usually mean Not Always?--12.219.120.120 (talk) 15:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I would say that "usually" implies "not always". Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily. In some contexts it can be a synonym for always, but generally speaking it implies "mostly but not necessarily always".  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, so "usually" usually implies "not always" but not always. :) Zain Ebrahim (talk) 07:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * May I quote that, Zain? I like its succinctness.  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

French translation
What are the meanings of the following French phrases:

Un peu cédé

Lointain

Au mouvt

Thanks 203.219.97.110 (talk) 23:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I suspect you've come across these in French music, possibly Debussy. In a musical context, "lointain" means distantly, ie. sotto voce.  "Au mouvt" is short for "au movement", which is equivalent to a tempo, an instruction to return to the main tempo after a ritardando.  The first one, I'm not sure of.  --  JackofOz (talk) 01:06, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Un peu cédé means something like poco rallentando. Literally, "yielding a little"; or, even more literally and unidiomatically, "yielded a little". In brief, slow down a bit. Think of the English words cede and relent, cognate with French céder and Italian rallentare. – ⊥ ¡ɐɔıʇǝoN oetica! T– 02:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Welcome back, Noetica. --  JackofOz (talk) 02:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses!

btw, the song was "The little white donkey" by Ibert. 203.219.97.110 (talk) 07:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)