Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 March 21

= March 21 =

Need assistance with a Japanese sentence
The sentence is "週の出オチで終わらなくて、よかった！" Neither the machine translators nor Breen's get me very far. I'm still struggling to understand the nuanced conjugation of "終わ" as it is used. Also, I just don't get "出" or "オチ" for that matter. The best I could do is "The week comes out in the end without ending, good!" I think there is an idiom or expression of some sort that I'm missing. Could someone please help clarify the meaning of this sentence? Thanks in advance! --Dragon695 (talk) 00:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * "It was good [=luckily] that it did not end as a weekly deochi". An ochi is a punchline and is used for humor; there are many types listed on that page. de means to "come out". Specifically, a deochi is the "punchline" when someone "comes out" on stage. Usually someone will be wearing a funny or strange costume in hopes to cause laughter and entertain the audience. owaranakute is the verb owar- "end" in negative form (owaranai) combined with conjunctive particle -te. yokatta is the past tense of yoi "good". You do not list any context, so I can only guess, but I suppose that this is regards to a weekly TV program in which entertainers appear on stage and make jokes. Perhaps something like Enta no Kamisama. Bendono (talk) 01:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Arigato! Indeed, it was commentary on a particular episode of a weekly Japanese TV program. Ah, it makes sense now! I will try harder next time! --Dragon695 (talk) 02:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * "yoi"? I usually see it romanized as "ii", though the first i becomes yo when it conjugates irregularly... Kuronue | Talk 21:30, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It is usually romanised as 'ii' and even spelt like that in hiragana and katakana, but this is because most people do pronounce it that way. This, in fact, is the irregular form, not 'yoi'. 'Yoi' is perfectly acceptable, but just sounds formal.--ChokinBako (talk) 19:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Hunmin Jeongeum
Where can I find English translations of the Hunmin Jeongeum and the Hunmin Jeongeum Haerye? I need them for a school assignment. Thanks. --Anakata (talk) 15:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt you can, and I doubt there are quality translations available. The Hunmin Jeongeum article has the first paragraph translated. The next paragraph is a list of syllable-initial sounds ("initials") in Korean, using Chinese characters as examples. Following that is a list of syllable-medial sounds, the "medials", also using Chinese characters as examples. Next they say that for syllable-final sounds ("finals") the "initials" can be used again. Then comes some instructions about the sounds/letters, such as where to write the vowels (underneath or to the right) and what the dots mean (tone).
 * 훈민정음 has the original Hunmin Jeongeum in Classical Chinese, and 훈민정음언해 is the Eonhaebon, the Korean translation which you can read by installing Code2000. --Kjoonlee 07:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

subject changes within a complex English sentence
The sentence Route 100 heads north, passing to the east of Great Point, to an intersection with Ernie Road, where it turns east. What does "it" refer to? Does "it" still refer to "Route 100" or does "it" now refer to "Ernie Road"? Thanks. --Polaron | Talk 22:32, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd read it as a reference to Route 100. If they wanted you to understand that Ernie Road turns east at that point, it would have been Route 100 heads north, passing to the east of Great Point, to an intersection with Ernie Road, which turns east.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:44, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * (ec) It refers unambiguously to "Route 100". It heads, and then it turns. --Milkbreath (talk) 22:47, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the replies. It's pretty clear in simpler sentences like "A goes to B, where it does something" that "it" refers to A. Just wanted to clarify. Thanks again. --Polaron | Talk 23:52, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not if it's something like 'Bert (or Route 66) goes to Andorra, where it snows a lot'. :) Seans Potato Business 12:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's because it in it snows above is what is often called a dummy subject. It's unambiguously the subject of the embedded clause; it is not coreferential with the subject of heads in the first example. But I think the original sentence is structurally ambiguous for me--I could say either where Route 100 turns east or where Ernie Road turns east and both would make sense syntactically (I don't know about the geography). — Zerida  ☥   18:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)