Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 March 8

= March 8 =

Sweden-Finland engineering connection: bridge, or tunnel?


has anyone thought of building a tunnel between sweden aland and bridge(s) or tunnels between aland and finland? and the reason I ask here is because someone can read swedish or finish. Thx. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alien from brixton (talk • contribs) 00:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think there's really a need for it. The region isn't particularly densely populated and could probably never support the costs. The shipping companies that run the cruise ship traffic between Finland and Sweden would probably also fight the suggestion tooth and nail since it would put them out of business.
 * I tried googling for this idea, but the only thing I came up with was this, which is a newsletter from EAP, the Swedish wing of the LaRouche movement. The newsletter refers to fanciful plans about "the Eurasian landbridges" with maglev trains from Stockholm to Hamburg, a tunnel or a bridge between Stockholm and Turku, and a tunnel (!) under Bering Strait between Russia and Alaska as way to shift economic focus further north. Considering how eccentric the EAP is in general, this is a pretty good indication that a Finland-Sweden bridge is never going to be built.
 * Peter Isotalo 07:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The Oresund Bridge connects Demark and Sweden. 80.0.101.168 (talk) 14:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed it does, but the distance that bridge/tunnel project spans is minimal compared to building a land connection between Sweden and Finland via Åland.
 * Peter Isotalo 08:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

http://www.mtry.fi/tiedotteet/Fixed%20transport%20connections%20across%20the%20Baltic%20to%20Sweden%20and%20Estonia%20without%20charts.pdf

Meaning and language origins of a word: vouzon
I have been reading some old English text during my researches and came across this "... was given a vouzon of ". I cannot find 'vouzon' in French, Latin or Old English dictionaries .. any ideas please? 77.68.126.54 (talk) 09:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you give the word in context? It could always be a typo. — kwami (talk) 10:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Nothing in the full text of OED, in that exact spelling. I am reminded of advowson, though:
 * The ‘patronage’ of an ecclesiastical office or religious house; the right of presentation to a benefice or living. (orig. The obligation to defend its rights or be its ‘advocate’; see advowee.)


 * And lo and behold, OED has this for vowson:
 * "Forms: 3–4 voweson, 5–6 vouson (5 vourson, -sone, wouson), 6 vowson. [Aphetic f. avow(e)son advowson.] Advowson, patronage."
 * Those variant spellings are getting pretty close to what you're after.
 * Nothing beyond that in large French dictionaries (including specialised dictionaries of Old French and Middle French by Greimas.) Looks French, though. Would be, in fact. Advowson is from Old French avoeson, which means things like "protectorate, lordship".
 * But Kwami is right: we need context, if we're to help more.
 * – ⊥¡ɐɔıʇǝoN oetica! T– 10:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What makes something dramatic?
I read a review on the internet about a movie (I think) where the critic gave a list of things the movie did not have such as suspense, conflict, surprise, and several other things, and then said words to the effect "in other words, it is not dramatic". Unfortunately I have been unable to find the article again. Definitions of "dramatic" seem to just say that its related to drama, or describe it in terms of the effect it has one the audience, neither of which are very useful when you want to create a script or story that is dramatic. So what are the constituent parts of something that is dramatic please? I've got suspense, conflict, surprise, emotion - what other things could be included in this list please? 80.0.101.168 (talk) 14:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Timing and pacing, of course. However, while we can point out what makes something dramatic or not, what is or isn't dramatic cannot always be described or quantized, because what is or isn't dramatic is very subjective. --Kjoonlee 20:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Some time ago, in the wee hours of the night, I zapped through the TV channels to mentally switch off before hopping into bed. Puzzled, I stopped at a channel which showed a burning log in a fire place.  The only sound was the occasional crackling of the wood and the soft hum of the flickering flames.  After 15 minutes of increasing boredom I concluded that the plot was somewhat lacking in dramatic suspense and went for a snooze.
 * Months later, I stumbled across the same channel. This time, however, there were two lumps of wood burning and crackling.
 * Mesmerised, I observed the subtly evolving tragedy of burning passion consuming the protagonists.
 * The eternal dichotomy of life and death,
 * The raw violence of nature versus nurture,
 * The profound metaphor of the essence of human existence;
 * This movie clearly had it all.
 * Unfortunately I must have dozed off and missed the dramatic climax of this masterpiece of cinematography.
 * As Klonjee points out, drama and tragedy are subjective experiences. So, by the way, are comedy and sex, but not necessarily in this order.   --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:57, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Is there a specific name for a town celebrating its 190th anniversary?
TXKay (talk) 16:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's called the "Intenyearsitllbeourbicentennial". —Angr If you've written a quality article... 20:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Not listed at anniversary, but you can try making up your own from the information there. Bovlb (talk) 21:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It won't necessarily help you with the number 190 ... but this site explores your question in some detail: http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/57195.html . It seems that, perhaps, there is not a "name" for each and every numerical anniversary.  I'd suspect that the "uninteresting" number 190 would fall in that category.   Or, in other words, rather than having a fancy / official name, the word would be merely "190th anniversary".  Thanks.   (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC))


 * By the way ... you might want to take this question over to the Math Help Desk (at Reference desk/Mathematics) ... this is more "up their alley" ... and maybe math-type folk are more up to speed on the subtle nuances of terms for "odd" numbers such as 190.  Thanks.   (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC))


 * I don't know whether this is also common practice in English-speaking countries but here in the Netherlands a five-year period is also called a lustrum. As this is derived from the Roman culture, it is mainly used among universities and schools where they study Latin. So, if the ordinary people call something a 190th birthday, these institutions will call it the 38th lustrum (well in Dutch then). Maybe not as pretentious as all those Latin words for numbers, but a lot easier to use in order to show your dignity. 81.207.65.29 (talk) 20:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to mention your ability to divide 190 by 5 at the drop of a hat. —Angr If you've written a quality article... 21:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Bob O'Billovich
I just found out about this guy. How in the world did that surname come to be? --Lazar Taxon (talk) 20:40, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * He's also in the category Serbian-Americans which may give you an inkling. Nanonic (talk) 20:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Who knows? Could be some foreign name (the first thought that came to my mind was Slobidan Milosevic) that has been "Americanized"   (rather, Irish-ized?) ... from Obelovic ... to Obillovich ... to O'Billovich.  Surnames do evolve over time.   (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC))
 * If I recall correctly, the Serbian alphabet makes use of the acute accent. American Irish names like O'Reilly and O'Hanrahan have the apostrophe because it was too difficult to use the ó of the original Irish name.  It could be the same with the Serbian name.  — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  21:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The suffix -vic or -ovic is a patronym in Slavic surnames, as in Vladimir Vladimorovich Putin or Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin. Belo or beo means white, as in Beograd (= white city), the capital of Serbia.
 * It may be that his family upon emigration to the USA anglicised their name. If, as stated avove, he is of Serbian descent than they may have tweaked their Cyrillic name to indicate they are sons and daughters of the "white city".
 * The origin of the Irish clan prefix O´... is anybody´s guess. As far as I know, accents are only used with sibilants in the Serbian Cyrillic alphabet, as in Radovan Karadžić. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Another possible first element is "obilje": abundance. By the way, Cockatoo, I think you meant that "accents" are only used with sibilants in Gaj’s Latin alphabet, rather than the Cyrillic alphabet, which manages quite well without them. (There is also a modified d in that Latin alphabet). SaundersW (talk) 22:38, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Foreign surnames beginning with O are often subject to the vagaries of hibernification. A Lebanese friend of mine whose surname is Omari (presumably related to the name Omar, as in Omar Khayyam) is often sent letters addressed to Mr O'Mari. And here’s a discussion from a year ago about a person of German extraction, whose family name was originally Überrhein, a reference to the area above the Rhine River.  It’s now become U’Brien, which looks like an illiterate way of spelling the Irish name O’Brien.  I'm sure he and his family would frequently have their name "corrected" to O'Brien; and who knows, one day they might just give up the fight, capitulate, and become honorary Celts.  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

(resetting indent) I have found this comment about changes to former Jugoslav names on immigration, specifically mentioning the case of "Obilovic" which became O'Bilovic. SaundersW (talk) 20:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)