Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 November 3

= November 3 =

Messed-up Unicode
Is there any way to make it so garbage unicode is visible? What I'm trying to say is, I have something like this: Ýé!Ñìîòðè,êóäà âû èä¸òå

And I want to know what it is in Cyrillic, how would I go about this? Avnas Ishtaroth drop me a line  00:51, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * This is probably using some character encoding other than Unicode, which was common for writing alphabets other than Latin until Unicode became more widespread; probably Windows-1251. Actually this site confirms it is Windows-1251, and converts it to the following Unicode: Эй!Смотри,куда вы идте. --Delirium (talk) 02:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * See mojibake for this phenomenon. We used to have an image of a package mailed from France to Russia that had been addressed by hand in mojibake. The recipient had e-mailed his address in Cyrillic to a buddy in Paris, and the computer screwed it up, but the Parisian didn't know that and thought Russian must really look like "Ýé!Ñìîòðè,êóäà âû èä¸òå", so he carefully wrote out all those characters by hand when mailing the package to his friend. Fortunately, someone at the Russian post office knew how to decipher it back into Cyrillic, and the package was delivered. (Unfortunately, our image of this package got deleted for lack of adequate source information.) —Angr 06:29, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

And that line of text in Russian means "Hey! Look where you're going", for anyone who's wondering. --Xuxl (talk) 16:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Except that "идте" is a misspelling. I'd suggest it should be "идите" or "идëте".  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:22, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

The origin of the word "pipa"
The word "pipa" is the same meaning inhungarian,spanish,english maybe in other languages too.I'm asking aboutthe origin of the word curiousmaty —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curiousmaty (talk • contribs) 08:04, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi curiousmaty, which pipa do you mean? There's the Chinese lute and the toad (and possibly others?). Julia Rossi (talk) 10:59, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably the "pipa" used for smoking. Spanish: pipa, Catalan: pipa, Hungarian: pipa, Italian: pipa, Swedish: pipa, Slovenian: pipa, and related words in German, Finnish, French, Dutch, Norwegian and Turkish. Did I get all the language prefixes right? --NorwegianBluetalk 18:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The origin of the word is Latin "pipare", which is onomatopoeia for the chirping of a bird. It originally referred to the musical instrument, and the other meanings are derived from their similar shapes. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:45, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Capitalisation [Googling a term in biochemistry]
I'm trying to find out how the enzyme rubisco should be spelt. The only differences are capitalisation (Rubisco/RuBisCO/RuBisCo), so google is not much help. Any tips how I can go about researching this? Thanks. Aaadddaaammm (talk) 17:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You should probably be looking at more specialized search engines, or looking for "authoritative" references. Instead of a general search engine, use a science paper indexing site like Pubmed or Google Scholar, and look at what variant seems to be preferred in official publications. For example, searching the journal Nature through its website indicates that most titles/abstracts use "Rubisco", with a smattering of "RuBisCO"/"rubisco"/"RUBISCO". Science seems to mostly prefer "RuBisCO", with a smattering of "Rubisco"/"rubisco"/"RUBISCO" and even a few "RubisCO" Alternatively, you can look for a trusted reference, and see what they list: The ExPASy enzyme classification site agrees with the RuBisCO article, and only lists RuBisCO as a variant . BRENDA seems to prefer "Rubisco". The undergraduate biochemistry text at hand (Garrett & Grisham) uses "rubisco". Sorry if there isn't a clear answer - it's probably a style issue. If you look at a plant/photosynthesis journal, they may explicitly mention how to write it in their "Instruction to Authors". - I'll also note that if you ask over at Reference_desk/Computing, they may be able to help you in doing case-sensitive web searches. -- 128.104.112.72 (talk) 22:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

"In the tank"
On a recent visit to the U.S.A. (urban Pacific Northwest), I would occasionally encounter this expression in the press. By the time I realized I don't quite grasp what it means, I had no good examples at hand till just now: a comment in The Oregonian regarding the paper's election endorsements, claiming the moderator of the VP debate was "...in the tank for Obama.". What does this mean, and where/when did it first surface? Which sense of tank? (aquarium? gas? Sherman?) Do other prepositions collocate with the phrase? -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's an article about the phrase and its origins. Recury (talk) 19:37, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

"Find it curious"
The expression "find it curious" strikes me as odd. How can a situation have curiosity? Can a 'curious person' be both someone who is interested in finding things out, or someone who rouses curiosity in others?

Is there a word for this type of adjective that means something, and can also mean that it causes others to feel it? I hope this question makes sense....24.147.171.20 (talk) 23:44, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think there is such a word, but I can't recall it, and I haven't so far found it: I think it may be something like unaccusative (though that is a class of verbs, not adjectives). 'Suspicious' is another example, and 'welcome' is similar ('it is welcome' = 'I welcome it' rather than *'I am welcome of it'). --ColinFine (talk) 00:42, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * "Curious" has two meanings:


 * Eager to know or to learn something


 * Strange, unusual


 * If someone says "the situation is curious", they probably mean that the situation is strange or unusual in some way. CBHA (talk) 05:53, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

However, "I find it curious" is not generally used of the situation per se (as in "I find this situation curious") - although it certainly can be used that way - but as "I find it curious that ", e.g. I find it curious that you persist in wanting me when I've always told you I consider you the most odious person I have ever known. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Jack, do you say that before or after you take out an AVO on one so odious? Julia Rossi (talk) 11:05, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that when "curious" occurs as a subjective complement (as in "John is curious"), it means, "inquiring, inquisitive, etc.;" however, as an objective complement ("I find John curious" (less common) or "I find it curious"), it means "odd."  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  11:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * PS And here is the OED: "5. a. Desirous of seeing or knowing; eager to learn; inquisitive. Often with condemnatory connotation: Desirous of knowing what one has no right to know, or what does not concern one, prying. (The current subjective sense.) 16. a. Deserving or exciting attention on account of its novelty or peculiarity; exciting curiosity; somewhat surprising, strange, singular, odd; queer. (The ordinary current objective sense.)"   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  11:30, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * To echo CBHA, I seem to recall that on the original Star Trek, Mr. Spock would respond to an unusual entity/situation by simply saying, "curious," a way of showing he was intrigued and yet not showing emotion, since he was a Vulcan. Of course, you can complain all you want that we're talking about human usage. :-) Somebody or his brother (talk) 12:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * So, if we were talking about a 'curious cat', would be meaning a 'cat which is curious' (which is totally usual) or an 'unusual cat'? Similarly, are we saying that Curious George is a weirdo?--ChokinBako (talk) 07:49, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Cats and George are, of course, curious in the sense of "eager to explore and learn". But when Alice found things not merely curious but "curiouser and curiouser", she meant more and more unusual. (And I'm pleased to see my browser's spellchecker is educated enough not to question the word "curiouser".) —Angr 08:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)