Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 October 15

= October 15 =

English to Spanish translation
Okay, so I'm trying to translate this original text from English to Spanish. Here is the original text: PO: Excuse me, but I need to ask you some questions.

W: Yes, what do you need to know?

PO: First I need to know your name.

W: My name is José Gomez, but I go by Pepe.

PO: Very good. So you saw a robbery?

W: Yes, I was very scared. I hid behind the counter and saw everything.

PO: Could you describe the robber?

W: A man of average height and he was chinese. He was wearing a black jacket and he had a mustache.

PO: Please tell me what happened.

W: He entered the store and looked around.

PO: What happened next?

W: He started putting things in a backpack, put on his backpack, and walked to the register, where I was.

PO: What did he put in his backpack?

W: Many items for personal use. He took shampoo, cologne, deodorant, a dryer, soap, and a comb.

PO: Why did the man need those things?

W: I don't know. He looked very dirty and he needed to shower and shave himself.

PO: What did he do after he came to the register?

W: He said, "A thousand pardons, pero, GIVE ME YOUR MONEY!"

PO: How much money did he steal?

W: Two thousand dollars.

PO: We are searching for this man and we are going to catch him.

W: Thank you, sir.

and here is my attempted translation: PO: Con permiso, pero necesito hacerle algunas preguntas.

T: Sí, ¿qué necesito saber?

PO: Primer, necesito saber su nombre.

T: Mi nombre es Pe Gómez, pero me llamo Pepe.

PO: Muy bien. Así vio un robo?

T: Sí, yo tenía mucho miedo. Me escondí detrás del mostrador y vi todo.

PO: ¿Puede describir el ladrón?

W: Un hombre de talla mediana y es chino. Él llevaba una chaqueta negro y tenía un bigote.

PO: Por favor, dime lo que pasó.

W: Él entró en la tienda y miró a su alrededor.

PO: ¿Qué pasó después?

W: Comenzó a poner las cosas en una mochila, ponerse su mochila, y caminé al registro, donde me estuve.

PO: ¿Qué es lo que puso en su mochila?

W: Muchas cosas de uso personal. Tomó champú, colonia, desodorante, un secador, jabón y un peine.

PO: ¿Por qué el hombre necesita esas cosas?

W: No sé. Él parecía muy sucio y necesitaba ducharse y afeitarse.

PO: ¿Qué hacer después de que llegó a este registradora?

W: Él dijo, "A mil perdones, pero, Dame tu dinero!"

PO: ¿Cuánto dinero hizo robar?

W: Dos mil dólares.

PO: Estamos buscando a este hombre y vamos a capturar Él.

W: Muchas gracias, señor.

How close am I? What could I have done differently to make it better/more accurate? Thanks! 71.117.35.56 (talk) 05:12, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Some verb forms look wrong to my half-informed eye. necesito (in the second line) ought not to be in first person. A police officer addressing a witness would (i think) more likely say dígame (polite) than dime. hacer is infinitive, should be hizo i guess.  hizo robar (is this a machine translation?) should be, well, something else.  capturar Él should be lo capturar (if that's even the right verb).  —Tamfang (talk) 17:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No natives around? Here are some additional half-informed suggestions, which may or may not be correct. I'm posting this mostly as an exercise on my on behalf, awaiting someone knowledgeable.


 * PO: Con su permiso, pero necesito tengo que hacerle ponerle algunas preguntas.


 * T: Sí, ¿qué necesito saber? ¡Digame!


 * PO: Primero, necesito saber su nombre su nombre por favor.


 * T: Mi nombre es Pe Gómez, pero me llamo Pepe.


 * PO: Muy bien. Así vio ha visto usted un robo?


 * T: Sí, yo tenía mucho miedo. Me escondí detrás del mostrador y lo vi todo.


 * PO: ¿Puede describir el al ladrón?


 * W: Un hombre de talla mediana y es era chino. Él Llevaba una chaqueta negro negra y tenía un bigote.


 * PO: Por favor, dime lo que digame qué pasó.


 * W: Él Entró en la tienda y miró a su alrededor.


 * PO: ¿Qué pasó después?


 * W: Comenzó a poner meter las cosas en una mochila, ponerse se puso su mochila, y caminé caminó al registro hacia la caja, donde me estuve estaba yo.


 * PO: ¿Qué es lo que puso metió en su mochila?


 * W: Muchas cosas de (para?) uso personal. Tomó champú, colonia, desodorante, un secador, jabón y un peine.


 * PO: ¿Por qué el hombre necesitaba esas cosas?


 * W: No sé. Él parecía Su apariencia era muy sucio sucia y necesitaba ducharse y afeitarse.


 * PO: ¿Qué hacer hizo después de que llegó a este registradora la caja?


 * W: Él Dijo, " a Mil perdones, pero, ¡Dame tu dinero!"


 * PO: ¿Cuánto dinero hizo logró robar?


 * W: Dos mil dólares.


 * PO: Estamos buscando Buscamos a este hombre y lo capturaremos vamos a capturar Él.


 * W: Muchas gracias, señor.
 * --NorwegianBluetalk 20:54, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you all for your suggestions thus far; and yes, bits and pieces come from Google Translate. I had to create a dialogue and I went a little above and beyond my current knowledge level, and after translating as much as I could by myself I used google to translate words I didn't know. That's why it's extremely unpolished. But thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it. I'm learning more every day, even thanks to you guys! Maybe I'll be fluently bilingual someday :-) --71.117.45.76 (talk) 22:46, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * NorwegianBlue has done an excellent job on the translation. I'm just gonna cherrypick and change sucio to sucia. As for the first sentence, I actually prefer hacerle algunas preguntas over ponerle, but ponerle isn't wrong either.--el Aprel (facta-facienda) 23:29, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hump(s)
Inspired by My Humps: Is there a difference in meaning to use singular or plural? And is there any logical reason to have it different in title and chorus? --KnightMove (talk) 11:53, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you asking for scrupulous gramatical consistancy out of pop music? Songs often use words for their rhythm or flow rather than attempting to construct a gramatically consistant work... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  17:13, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The s does not make any difference in rhythm/flow. However, if we assume that the answer to the 2nd question is no, this leaves the 1st one open. --KnightMove (talk) 00:29, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure it does. If you just say "Hump" you can sort of soften the "p" sound, so it sounds more like "Hungh", while if you include the "s" you get a full consonantal "ps" sound at the end.  It certainly alters the stress patterns of your singing and of the words around it.  With the singular, its much easier to clip the beat, and put a short rest in.  With the plural, the word has a habit of "running over" into that space in the music, which can completely change the feel of the phrase.  Try it out, there is a difference.  Secondly, unvoiced consonants aren't all that interesting to sing, since they don't have any tone quality, being unvoiced.  So, "Hump" has a very different effect on the song than "Humps".  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  01:16, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that was very interesting. --KnightMove (talk) 10:04, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I often thought she was referring to two different sets of humps through the song. When she says humps, I thought breasts, and hump, I thought rump. But maybe I'm crazy (the song does talk about fitting the humps into a shirt and into jeans, though, IIRC). Steewi (talk) 00:45, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The breasts are referred to as lumps. Maybe hump and lumps are subsumed as humps... makes sense, even though this way many fans are at fault about the title. --KnightMove (talk) 10:04, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

On the characteristics of brand name
On the characteristics of brand name —Preceding unsigned comment added by Byron8711 (talk • contribs) 13:22, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You need to tell us what you want to know. --  JackofOz (talk) 20:39, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Or maybe, tell us what you want to know after reading the article Brand. Julia Rossi (talk) 08:07, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I think my text contains a lot of mistakes
Hi, I'm a German student and had to write a text with the topic "I like America" for my next English lesson. I wrote one, but I think there are still a lot of mistakes in it. I hope some of you have a bit time to take a look on it and to tell me the worst mistakes. Here it is:

There are a lot of different opinions about America. Many people like it, but there are also people who don't like America. In this essay I will tell why I like America. The USA are a democracy for a very long time. The people can vote for a president freely and secretly and as everyone can see, this works quite well. To this day, there are no cases of electoral fraud known. This makes the population satisfied and the government juster. Another positive fact about America is that today all people have equal rights. OK, a hundred years ago, there were no equal rights, but now nobody is preferred and there is nearly no discrimination against women, blacks or immigrants. I think the presidential candidate Barack Obama is a good example for this. Today, it's normal that a black person can become the president of the United States, but in former times, he even wouldn't have had the right to be a candidate.

America plays a great role in world politics. They can influence the political and economical situation of other countries. Critics say that they are playing the role of a “World Police” and so they bring war to many countries, like Iraq or Afghanistan. But I think it was important to go to these countries and free them from dictatorship. That this cannot work within 4 or 5 years is clear. It's a lengthy process but when it's finished, the inhabitants will be glad about being able to live in a free country, which is no longer a danger for the hole world.

What I also like on America is that you can live wherever and however you want. You don't need to be registered and you also don't need to have an identity card. The only thing you must have is a social security number. The mentality of the Americans is to be as free as possible, they want to fulfil themselves and realize the “American Dream”. So if someone becomes rich, the other people are not jealous of him, because they know that he worked hard for his money. In America, you can also be a member of each religion you like, there are no restrictions.

All in all, I like America because there everybody has the chance to fulfil himself and everybody can live free.''

Thank you in advance --80.128.138.195 (talk) 14:12, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I did some rough editing; I made corrections in bold and suggestions in italics.


 * "There are a lot of different opinions about America. Many people like it, but there are also people who don't like America. In this essay I will tell why I like America.


 * The USA have been a democracy for a very long time. The people can vote for a president freely and secretly and as everyone can see, this works quite well. To this day, there are no cases of electoral fraud known. This makes the population satisfied and the government more just.


 * Another positive fact about America is that today all people have equal rights. Admittedly, a hundred years ago, there were no equal rights, but now nobody is preferred and there is nearly no discrimination against women, blacks or immigrants. I think the presidential candidate Barack Obama is a good example for this. Today, it's considered normal that a black person can become the president of the United States, but in former times, he even wouldn't have had the right to be a candidate.


 * America plays an important role in world politics. They can influence the political and economical situation of other countries.
 * Critics say that they are playing the role of a “World Police” and thus they bring war to many countries, like Iraq or Afghanistan.


 * But I think it was important to go to these countries and free them from dictatorship. That this cannot work within 4 or 5 years is clear. It's a lengthy process but when it's finished, the inhabitants will be glad to be able to live in a free country, which is no longer a danger for the whole world.


 * What I also like about America is that you can live wherever and any way you want. You don't have to be registered and you also don't have to have an identity card. The only thing you must have is a social security number.
 * The mentality of the Americans is to be as free as possible, they want to fulfil their wishes and realize the “American Dream”. So if someone gets rich, the other people are not jealous of him, because they know that he* worked hard for his money. In America, you can also be a member of any religion you like, there are no restrictions.


 * All in all, I like America because there everybody has the chance to fulfil himself* and everybody can live free.
 * * The use of generic he is still a highly controversial topic. Some prefer to use singular they or s/he etc. How you handle this issue in school will of course largely depend on your teacher.


 * That's the grammatical side of thing. There are some more usage issues; for example, it is generally not considered appropriate to use contractions in formal writing; also, formal writing tends to prefer words with Latin roots over Germanic synonyms where possible (for example liberate instead of free). But in general, you got a decent vocabulary and the mistakes you made are typical Germanisms that plague people for years.
 * One thing I feel compelled to point out is that there are few content issues. I don't know how much you've talked about the US and current problems in class, but most would point out that there is still substantial race and gender-based discrimination, at least in parts of the US (also, it's still not considered normal for a black person to run for president, as can be seen by how everyone makes a huge issue of him being black, whether they do so in a good or bad way). Also, the voting system is often said to be antiquated and actually anything but just; and there have been a lot of irregularities during elections (barring people from voting, e.g.). Oh, and jealousy and envy exist everywhere. Baranxtu (talk) 15:01, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd say "the USA has been" (not "have been"), and I'd point out that technically you aren't legally required to have a Social Security Number either, it's just extremely difficult to find work without one. —Angr 15:21, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You're right, of course. I guess I let myself be deceived by a Germanism. I blame the fact that I was jumping from one language to the other for half the day. Baranxtu (talk) 16:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your corrections :-) There's one thing I should say: We had to choose between the topics "I like America" and "I don't like America" and we were not allowed to write a mixed text. I know about the problems in the USA e.g with the elections and so on.... but as I said, I had to write a 100% positive (or 100% negative) text, so I didn't mention them. --80.128.138.195 (talk) 16:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Did your teacher specifically say that if you write on "I like America" you weren't to mention anything negative? Because it seems to me you can easily write an essay supporting the thesis that all in all, you like America, but while you're aware of its problems, they don't outweigh the positive aspects to your mind. (Likewise you could write on "I don't like America" and still concede it has positive aspects.) —Angr 16:37, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I wanted to write it exactly like you said it: Tell the positive and the negative aspects and then say that all in all, I like America because of the positive aspects. But he said explicitly that we may only write from one point of you. You can believe me, I don't think as positive about America as i wrote it, but finally I like it anyway. --80.128.138.195 (talk) 16:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, well, then the important thing is to follow instructions! Viel Glück! —Angr 17:25, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a little correction to your last post, 80.128.138.195: it's a "point of view", not a "point of you". &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 17:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Danke, Angr ;-) Oh, and of course, I wanted to write "point of view", it was just a slip of the pen (is it called so?) --80.128.138.195 (talk) 17:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I have some serious doubts about any person in education who "orders" their pupils to compose a hagiography / a condemnation of any entity, be it a nation, a religion or some other complex ideological and historical construct.  There may be some ulterior motive I can´t quite see, but I find this assignment rather disturbing and of questionable value for the pupils / students.  Whilst this does not answer your question, I believe it to be a valid critique of an essay which prescribes a blind and one sided attitude and asks for simplistic waffle.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:10, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * PS: I have answered to a follow up question of the OP 80.128.138.195 (in German) on my user page, as my posting may have been misunderstood as a critique on the essay itself.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:06, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

May I make some further suggestions ( underlined ):


 * ... In this essay I will say why I like America.


 * The USA has been a democracy for a very long time.


 * Another positive fact ... I think the presidential candidate Barack Obama is a good example of this.


 * Today, it's considered normal that a black person can become the president of the United States, but in former times, he wouldn't even have had the right to be a candidate.


 * America plays an important role in world politics. It can influence the political and economical situation of other countries.


 * Critics say that America is playing the role of a “World Police” and thus it brings war to many countries, like Iraq or Afghanistan.


 * What I also like about America is that you can live wherever and in any way you want.


 * The mentality ... In America, you can also be a member of any religion you like, as there are no restrictions. --  JackofOz (talk) 20:37, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * On plural vs singular, the USA is an entity while (collectively) the states are entities. Kittybrewster &#9742;  06:58, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure how to intepret your comment, Kitty. Can you say more?  --  JackofOz (talk) 13:54, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank all of you for your help!!! :-) --80.128.148.71 (talk) 18:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Writing a letter in Icelandic
Does anyone know how one starts a letter in Icelandic? I'm emailing an Icelandic company, and my Icelandic is not very good, but I want to first introduce myself in Icelandic and then state that my Icelandic is very limited, perhaps by saying '"Eg er að læra íslensku"' before requesting permission to correspond in English. Komdu saell or sael would be too much like a greeting as opposed to a 'Dear sir/madam'. Also, how does one finish? Thanks in advance, Wikiwikijimbob (talk) 14:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * My own personal opinion here. Generally, if you don't know someone elses language, it may not be a good idea to attempt this.  It usually comes off as either a) insulting or b) mildly endearing, in the "oh, cute, look, he's trying to work out our language".  Its probably best if you are not fluent in Icelandic to just write the letter in English.  I would possibly explain that you apologize for not using their native language, but you are more comfortable in English and wouldn't want to butcher their language, or something.  Entirely my own opinion here, but that's how I would do it.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  17:10, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you're right. I didn't want to seem like I was a typical English speaker who can't be bothered to speak others' languages, which was why I particularly wanted to know the 'Dear sir/madam' part. I've searched on the internet, but there's little to be found. I suppose that's a result of Icelanders being few in number. Perhaps it would be better to ask on the Icelandic Wikipedia or to look through this one to see which users have fluency in Icelandic so I can throw myself upon their mercy! ;) Thanks for the advice, though, Jayron32 - I understand where you're coming from. Wikiwikijimbob (talk) 18:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know what greetings are most commonly used for business communications. I typically start letters with "Kæra X!" (addressing a woman) "Kæri X!" (addressing a man) or "Kæru X!" (when addressing more than one person). If I'm trying to be formal I sometimes use "Ágæta X!" (or ágæti/ágætu, you get the picture). I typically sign off with "Kveðja, Haukur" or "Með bestu kveðju, Haukur". Haukur (talk) 22:57, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Takk fyrir, Haukur. I know that Icelanders aren't overly formal, so even if 'Ágæta' is the wrong one for a business setting, I'm sure it won’t offend. Would Ágæta on its own make sense, or does it need to be said to someone (i.e., do I need to have ‘Sir/Madam’ after it?) Thanks, Wikiwikijimbob (talk) 07:05, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It needs something to go with it. You can use "Ágæti viðtakandi!", 'Dear recipient!' Haukur (talk) 11:45, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, Haukur. It's much appreciated. :) Wikiwikijimbob (talk) 16:06, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

How is "seleção" pronounced?
Simple question: How is the Portuguese word "seleção" pronounced? Please give the pronunciation in phonetics because I'm unfamiliar with different pronunciation guide symbols. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.35.8.31 (talk) 21:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * In Brazil I think it would be ; it might be different in Portugal. Is the IPA what you meant by "pronunciation in phonetics"? —Angr 21:31, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you kindly. But by phonetics, I meant something like Dictionary.com's default pronunciation key is: e.g., 'thi-sawr-uhs' for 'thesaurus'. If you could give me the pronunciation by that key, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.35.8.31 (talk) 00:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * With my limited knowledge of Portuguese, AFAIK, the c-cedilla, ç, is pronounced like an s, while the "ão" vowel construct is pronounced sort of like the end of the word "noun" if you don't put your tounge against your teeth when you say the final "n"; so its sort of a really nasally "ow" sound... --Jayron32. talk . contribs 01:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Jayron is right. The problem with using something like dictionary.com's key is that it was designed for English, and Portuguese has different sounds. Roughly, it's "selly-SOUN", where "SOUN" rhymes with "noun" but you don't let your tongue touch your alveolar ridge for the final "n" sound. —Angr 05:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * To make the "ão" sound nasal, you'd get even closer by thinking "selly-SOUNG", while following Angr's advice to not let your tongue touch your alveolar ridge in the final "ng" sound. --NorwegianBluetalk 18:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * In the case of an "ng" sound, it's your soft palate you don't want your tongue to touch, though. Basically don't let your tongue touch anywhere on the roof of your mouth. —Angr 08:12, 17 October 2008 (UTC)