Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 October 6

= October 6 =

Is this source saying "Luçoes" in Portuguese translates into "Luzons" in English?
Anthony Reid, in a chapter in The Austronesians: Historical and Comparative Perspectives, seems to be saying that Luçoes, when said in English, is Luzons. Either that or my interpretation -- not being able to speak Portuguese and all -- is completely conked. I haven't integrated this into the Luçoes stub yet, but I sure would like input on how to proceed with this tidbit:"The first European reports on the Tagalogs classify them as “Luzons” (Port. Lucoes), a nominally Muslim commercial people trading out of Manila, and “almost one people” with the Malays of Brunei (Pires 1515:134)."-- Alternativity (talk) 03:09, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's really a big deal. Proper nouns don't translate, therefore Luzons is simply an anglisized version of the Portuguese. Like México → Mexico.  Grsz  X  03:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Alternativity (talk) 04:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

curriculum vitae
What is the plural of curriculum vitae, please? Is it curriculums vitae? curricula vitae? curriculums vitaes? ???? Thanks 86.148.49.117 (talk) 10:27, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I would go with "curricula vitae". But the abbreviation CV is more commonly used than the full phrase, so you could just put "CVs". --Richardrj talkemail 10:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Strictly speaking, it's curricula vitae if it's all one person's CVs, curricula vitarum if it's the CVs of different people. (You see why you're safer just saying "CVs"!) —Angr 10:43, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL, that'll teach me for trying to appear clever than I am -- I guess I'll stick with cvs!! 86.148.49.117 (talk) 10:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought the plural of curriculum vitae was "resumes". Silly me... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  18:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No, that's the present tense of the verb "to resume". :)  --  JackofOz (talk) 20:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry. I shoulda said "Rez zoom mays".  My bad.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  00:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * "Résumés" works best, and more like "ray zyou may"; no "zoom zoom" here. ៛ Bielle (talk) 00:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Japanese
What would something along the lines of "Hitokoto Nate Yatteyo!" mean? Is it "Tell me that thing/joke you heard!" ?80.123.210.172 (talk) 12:10, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It sounds like the person is saying 「一言なんか言ってよ」　(hitokoto nanka itteyo), which means 'say SOMETHING AT LEAST!', in an angry/excited way. It would not make sense with 'nante'. If it was 'hitokoto nante ittenaiyo' ('I did not say ANYTHING') it would make sense.--ChokinBako (talk) 12:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's impossible to figure out the right answer. Hitokoto/ひとこと literally means 'one word'. Nate? There's no such word/phrase. Or is it 'datte'? Yatteyo/やってよ means 'do something for me'.  'Hitokoto nante ittenaiyo' means 'I didn't say the word hitokoto'. Not 'I didn't say anything'. It should be 'Hitokotomo ittenaiyo'. I'd like to see the context. Oda Mari (talk) 15:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * 「一言なんて、言ってないよ！」 is correct, Oda Mari, meaning 'I did not say a thing,' or 'you are mot saying anything', but it is still strange. Without proper context we can't do much. .--ChokinBako (talk) 19:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * But I am Japanese, ChokinBako.... Oda Mari (talk) 19:50, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's something a foreigner says, so he probably says it wrong. It's from a video on YouTube and the subtitles say what I said, "Tell me that thing you heard". It's from a Gaki no Tsukai show. I don't speak Japanese, but that's how it sounds. 80.123.210.172 (talk) 19:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Link, please. Oda Mari (talk) 19:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oda Mari, I know fully well you are Japanese. But sometimes things have to be debated.--ChokinBako (talk) 19:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Mari, look on my page, and and you will find a link so we can talk privately about what is and what is not Japanese. We can advise each other, seeing as we are the only two Japanese translators here.--ChokinBako (talk) 20:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Third translator here. Although it turned out, as we see below, that the gaijin here was trying to say 一言ネタやってよ ("Do a gag"), Mari is correct that 一言なんて、言ってないよ is meaningless. It doesn't matter that it might be grammatically correct: it simply is not said, and it certainly doesn't mean 'I did not say a thing,' which, as Mari pointed out, would be 一言も言ってないよ. Sometimes there's room for debate, but in this case there isn't. I've been speaking Japanese for more nearly a quarter century, and professionally translating for about 20 years. I lecture several days a week in Japanese, I write columns and essays in Japanese, and I've graded thousands of reports written in Japanese by Japanese students. There are often cases when I find myself correcting native-speaker students' kanji, grammar, or use of polite language, but when it comes to ordinary colloquial language like this, I learned long ago to trust the gut judgment of native speakers, even if they are half my age. Almost by definition, the native speaker "knows" what "sounds right" and what doesn't. I could greet someone in English saying "What is above?" and although it "works" grammatically, it is meaningless. Any 12 year old knows it should be "What's up?", even if s/he cannot explain why. 本当にいい翻訳者になるには、過信は禁物. でないと戸田奈津子みたいになるよ（笑）. BTW, the English subtitles of the clip (which was pretty funny) are riddled with errors. 失礼しやした〜〜.  Matt Thorn (talk) 00:33, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpmfyi8q-n4&feature=related - right after 4:20 (approximately) - he says it a few times - there are also some kana on the screen when he says it, maybe that helps. 80.123.210.172 (talk) 20:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The foreigner is acting the stock character of "white, shit-poor speaker of Japanese". He's saying "ヒトゴトナテヤッテヨ" (hitogoto nate yatte yo - which is pretty much rubbish) and the subtitle says "一言ネタやってよ" (hitokoto neta yatte yo) - which means "tell me a(nother) joke".

(Also, ChokinBako, I'm appalled at you. Didn't I just help you out the other day? :P) TomorrowTime (talk) 20:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Many thanks. 80.123.210.172 (talk) 21:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I watched the video. The English subtitle is mistranslation. The foreigner correctly pronounced the line only at the first time. See the Japanese subtitles. It's ネタ/neta at the first time. But next two subtitles are ナタ/nata. Grammatically speaking, the word hitokoto in the line is totally understandable, but at the same time totally wrong. It should be 'hitotsu/ひとつ' or more slangy 'ippatsu/いっぱつ/一発'. Oda Mari (talk) 05:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe they would be, and thank god we have a third translator here. I and Mari can not be here all the time, hey :) And by the way, I have been translating for ten years, so we are both on a par, lar.--ChokinBako (talk) 08:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It is all down to a bad subtitler. Let him live, we can have more laughs over this.--ChokinBako (talk) 08:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Inelegant or appropriate?
Quoting from the article Shannen Doherty:

"She has appeared several times, nude, in Playboy magazine. Her first appearance was in December 1993, followed by a spread in March 1994."

Comments please. Wanderer57 (talk) 12:31, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Padum-pah. —Angr 12:41, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Surely that would depend on whether it was truly a spread or just carefuly posed. It's not necessarily inappropriate, but it is snigger-worthy. Steewi (talk) 23:27, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Well it's definitely got a bit of a double entendre (spelling?) thing with a spread being another way of saying 'article' or 'feature piece' and then obviously given the context, a spread can mean, well, a parting of legs... 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Audio Japanese dictionary
Hello everyone. I am currently learning Japanese, mostly from books. However my biggest difficulty is to catch the right pronunciation of words. Does someone happen to know an audio Japanese dictionary where I can hear the pronunciation of each word? Thank you. 85.112.95.14 (talk) 15:17, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I haven't heard of one, but it would be useful. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The XD-GP6900 has that feature. Quote: "明鏡国語辞典（ネイティブ音声収録）, 日本語の微妙なニュアンスに踏み込み、言葉の使い方・書き方を詳しく解説. 約10,000語の見出し語をネイティブ発音. " Regards. Bendono (talk) 12:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I must have been tired, because I thought only of online dictionaries. There are several electronic dictionaries with pronunciation included. I think there's even one for the Nintendo DS. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Latin duck translation
Could some helpful person translate the following into Latin? Many thanks.

"What is the difference between a duck? One leg is the same." Obfuscator (talk) 19:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I've heard the original as "One of its legs is both the same". jnestorius(talk) 20:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's hard to translate nonsensical jokes into other languages...do you want a word-for-word translation or do you want something that would be equally funny in Latin? Adam Bishop (talk) 02:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If possible, a word-for-word translation so long as it retains the humor of the original joke; and if too much gets lost in translation, simply translating the question without the answer would actually be quite sufficient for my purposes.


 * By the way, if you do have a joke that would be equally funny in Latin, I would be more than delighted to be humored by it!


 * Thanks. Obfuscator (talk) 06:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone once wrote some "yo mama" jokes in Latin, and presented them as if they were found in a medieval manuscript...that was the funniest thing ever, speaking as a medievalist of course! But that webpage no longer exists. Anyway, literally how about "quid est discrimen inter anas? Una crus totidem est." It's ungrammatical but it wouldn't really work with perfect grammar... Adam Bishop (talk) 08:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "Inter anatem", isn't it? —Angr 08:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah but I left it nominative just to be nonsensical. Also, "crus" is one leg, but "una" is plural to refer to two legs, even though of course "unum" can't be made plural. Pretty lame, I know... Adam Bishop (talk) 08:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, also, "inter anas" means "between the old ladies", which I guess could be funny somehow. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * 'Between the old ladies' would be inter anus, not anas. Maid Marion (talk) 11:34, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but the very fact that it means something else—and something else more sensible than "between a duck"—means Latin speakers would be likely to interpret it that way. They wouldn't think "What an amusing way of saying 'between a duck'", they'd think "What is 'Between old ladies, ones leg is the same' supposed to mean?" The English original sentence is grammatically impeccable, it's just devoid of meaning, like "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously". The Latin translation should be too. —Angr 15:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, yeah, that's true. I'm not sure what to do with it then. There must be surviving examples of Latin nonsense to use as a guide? Adam Bishop (talk) 01:04, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I will attempt a nonsensical translation in Japanese, if you may. 「家鴨の間の違いは何？片方の足は両方一緒だから」means absolute nonsense, as does the English and Latin equivalents above, but in this case it does not even raise a smile! It is just nonsense language!--ChokinBako (talk) 08:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know any Latin, so I can't help directly, but in general anti-jokes like this one are based on breaking a conventional pattern. In this case, the standard pattern for the first half of a "what's the difference" joke in English is "What is the difference between an X and a Y?".  The duck joke breaks it by ending the sentence before the "and a Y" part, prompting the listener to ask "Between a duck and a what?" (to which the person telling the joke of course simply repeats "Between a duck." until the listener gives up and asks "Well, what is it, then?", at which point they provide the even more nonsensical answer).  So, I suppose that, in order to translate the duck joke into Latin, you should first translate an ordinary "what's the difference" joke and then truncate it.  The answer part of the joke is harder, and indeed tends to vary more in the telling, but it generally plays on both the numerical confusion of the question as well as on mixing the "what's the difference" pattern with the related "What do X and Y have in common?" pattern of jokes.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 02:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Right, well, let's hear it in Finnish, then! I've done the Japanese. Any other languages, anyone?--ChokinBako (talk) 07:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * In Finnish the question goes " Mitä eroa on ankalla?&thinsp;". According to Google, the most common answer appears to be " Se ui paremmin kuin kävelee." ("It swims better than it walks."), though I've heard others as well.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 09:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)