Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 September 30

= September 30 =

"upwards of"
I'm wondering about the expression "upwards of".

For example, does "upwards of fifty" mean - less than but close to fifty - more than fifty - somewhere in the vicinity of fifty?

Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 01:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * At least fifty, but probably more. (Not as much as 60, of course, else you'd say "pushing 60", or similar .) Think of it as "above".  Gwinva (talk) 02:16, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Anyone know this Kanji?
Does anyone know this Kanji? 鑑. In my document, it is used as '[verb]ことに鑑み' and comes at the end of a clause. Cheers!--ChokinBako (talk) 12:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My kanji dictionary says かんがみる, meaning "in view of [a situation]". TomorrowTime (talk) 12:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Cheers, that makes perfect sense!--ChokinBako (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Name of a report?
If I'm making a report to my manager to assess the current situation of a service and making suggestions on what changes and options are possible to improve the quality and efficiency of the service and how to reconfigure and optimize the workflow or the way phone lines are set up, what is that called? an "assessment and suggestion report"? surely there must be a standard term for this kind of research and recommendations document. in the end it's the manager who receives the report who can decide what he wants to do, but now he is fully informed of his options.--Sonjaaa (talk) 16:21, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Name the report something logical to what you are doing "Optimisation of Phone Line to Improve Service Quality and Efficiency" would seem to be alright. Something such as Project_management might be a place to consider more official sounding titles. The problem is that every company will incorporate different 'tools' and so will have different report naming conventions. ny156uk (talk) 18:52, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Italian translation
Hy there, could someone translate me this Italian sentence: "NESSUNO COME NOI"? Much obliged. Flamarande (talk) 17:02, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it means "no one like us". —Angr 18:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think so too. —Tamfang (talk) 17:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Mama and papa
Some articles said the similarity between "mama" and "papa" in many less related languages is "false cognate". Are there exist some opposite linguistic theories or evidences that support other viewpoints? I am thinking about that maybe some of these "mama"s are real cognate because recent researches suggest that all the people have same origin. luuva (talk) 20:09, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * If you haven't already, check out mama_and_papa. A question very similar to this came up on this Language Desk a month or so ago. You might find more information in the Archives.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 20:37, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

USA v UK abbreviations
Why is it that Americans abbreviate every thing with initials, whereas Brits use a 'shortened' form. e.g. Video Cassette Recorder, US = VCR, UK video Television, US = TV, UK = telly Automatic teller machine, US = ATM, UK = hole in the wall Improvised Explosive Devise, US = IED, UK = bomb

Thanks, Colin, a Brit living in the US —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.170.128.65 (talk) 20:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * We stopped saying 'hole in the wall' when people started stealing them, and they were, literally, a hole in the wall! What era did you come from?! --ChokinBako (talk) 23:02, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm 28 from the UK. I say "cash machine". The term "hole in the wall" is now a trademark of Barclays Bank! doktorb wordsdeeds 23:07, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We also do use the Lloyds TSB copyrighted term 'Cashpoint' quite a bit as it's easier to say that Barclays' copyrighted 'hole-in-the-wall'. Nanonic (talk) 23:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Terms like that are uncopyrightable. I think you mean they are trademarks. Algebraist 09:38, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec) Because British and American English are different dialects. No, seriously, that is all the answer there is. We say 'lorry' but Americans don't, what we call a 'mobile' Americans usually call a 'cellphone', and so on. Because they're different dialects. It may be the case that Americans use more initialisms, than we do, but I'm not convinced. I don't think many Americans would talk about their 'GP', for example.


 * Incidentally, I'm dubious about both 'telly' and 'hole in the wall'. I don't deny that they are used, but not in the same way as 'TV' and 'ATM': I don't think I would say 'telly' except jocularly, and I normally say 'cashpoint' or 'cash machine' rather than 'hole in the wall'. Come to think of it, one reason for 'ATM' being less readily taken up in the UK may be that the word 'teller' is very much less common that in the US. --ColinFine (talk) 23:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Meh, these things vary of course. I'd say 'telly' as easily as 'TV', but 'hole in the wall' definitely has a jocular edge for me - only used in certain moods and circumstances. Maybe 10 or so years ago I would have considered it the normal word for the people I heard say it. Would never use ATM though (except as abbrev. for at the moment). Cash machine would seem more every day usage. 130.88.52.36 (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I expect British soldiers serving in Iraq would use the term IED; IED is a specific type of bomb. All IEDs are bombs, but not all boms are IED's.  Calling an IED a bomb is the equivalent of calling a sturgeon a fish.  The Jade Knight (talk) 03:53, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

"no no" ( babyish expression..)
To say that soemething is a "no, no " is quite common in current English.I don't like it, especially outside its pediatric context , as it sounds infantile and trivialising. I *believe* it originated from Dr Benjamin Spock, but I have been able to find an origin, Can anyone help ? Feroshki (talk) 23:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The OED gives a 1942 citation. The noun form appears in L. V. Berrey and M. Van den Bark's The American Thesaurus of Slang.  In the 1953 edition, "no-no" appears on page 297.  Spock's book Baby and Child Care was not published until 1946. Michael Slone (talk) 00:58, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not a "no, no"; it's a no-no. While the phrase is obviously older, it was popularized in the 1960s by Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In.  --Anonymous, 05:25 UTC, October 1, 2008.
 * Before Laugh-In, there was "that's a Bozo no-no".... I see our article on Bozo lacks the Bozo no-no, "Cram it, Clownie!" story, for which, see here- Nunh-huh 18:26, 1 October 2008 (UTC)