Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 August 2

= August 2 =

Generic term for Asian characters
Is there a term that encompasses all of hanzi/kanji/hanja and all the other writing systems influenced by them, such as kana and hangul? I'm asking because the article Stroke order refers to "the correct order in which the strokes of a Chinese character are written", which is too specific. &mdash; Sebastian 04:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * CJK characters. Adam Bishop (talk) 05:30, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All those terms literally mean "Han characters" or "Chinese characters". DHN (talk) 06:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * why is it too specific? It hits the nail on the head, really. How specific can you get (or not get, in this case) ?--KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 10:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "hanzi/kanji/hanja" are collectively called Chinese characters. Chinese characters plus the Chinese character-influenced phonetic writing systems used in Korea and Japan are, in the computing context, called CJK characters.
 * Chinese characters plus all the Chinese character-influenced writing systems of Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Khitan, Jurchen etc, are described in Wikipedia as the "Chinese family of scripts". That term seems to best cover your question, though see that article for details. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:02, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ideogram? Pictogram? Logogram? Sinogram? --151.51.27.172 (talk) 13:29, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, I didn't think there were that many different similar articles! CJK characters describes exactly what I mean, but it isn't used outside of the computing context. Chinese family of scripts might be a good fit; at least it mentions kana and bopomofo; but the core of the article is about hanzi/kanji/hanja and its precursors, and the expansive treatment it gives even to the level of different hanzi fonts, it is conspicuously silent about hangul. Since there are no links that confirm that such scripts as hangul are included in the term, I'll rather simply write "Characters that are constructed like Chinese characters". &mdash; Sebastian 20:11, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely sure hangul are constructed like Chinese characters. They're phonetic, for one thing, and they were created specifically to be different from Chinese, for another.  Exploding Boy (talk) 16:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, Hangul are different functionally and look different, but that's not what I mean by "constructed". I'm talking of construction with a writing instrument, as is relevant in the context of Stroke order. &mdash; Sebastian 00:36, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

High-Table origins of some old slang terms
I've been thinking recently about how some slang derived from the Latin and Greek classes that used to be obligatory at school - nous is an example (I'm sure when people use it to mean 'common sense' they're rarely aware they're speaking Ancient Greek) - clacker is another, meaning anus, and which I can't help but think derives from 'cloaca'. But recently I learned the term retromingent, and looked up its etymology. This coincided with me wondering about the origin of the slang term 'minge', for female genitals - which, like a lot of slang, is of unknown origin. When I learned that the Latin word mingere means 'to urinate', I wondered if there was a connexion between the two. What do people think? Is it possible or likely, or am I grasping at phantoms?

Thanks Adambrowne666 (talk) 12:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

This has some information... --pma (talk) 22:02, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Minge (pronounced thusly, spelled mindž) is Romani for the female genitals. I'm even surprised to see it in such a pure form (many dialects have changed it to minč through final devoicing, miž through *deaffricatization and cluster simplification and miš through both of the above). It definitely shouldn't be listed (as I indeed see it is here) as being "of unknown origin". I see I'm not the first to think of this - . Other Romani loanwords in English are "pal", possibly "chav" and conceivably "Dad".--91.148.159.4 (talk) 18:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, that's fascinating, thanks - now I've gotta learn something about Romani and its origins. Adambrowne666 (talk) 13:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Znüni and Zvieri
Why can neither Znüni nor Zvieri be a Standard German word? --88.76.250.30 (talk) 21:34, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

''If your question is homework, show that you have attempted an answer first, and we will try to help you past the stuck point. If you don't show an effort, you probably won't get help. The reference desk will not do your homework for you.''--78.13.141.198 (talk) 21:53, 2 August 2009 (UTC). PS: are you a human or a program?


 * Unless the OP is a student of linguistics, delving into the secrets of the Allemanic vocabulary, this is unlikely to be homework. Both are words of the Swiss German / Schwyzerdütsch dialect.  Our article on Swiss German may be of help in your question.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:33, 2 August 2009 (UTC)