Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 December 19

= December 19 =

Translation please
Friedrich nahm in Dahme Residenz und beauftragte die Baumeister Johann Christoph Schütze und Elias Scholtz ab 1711 auf den Resten der mittelalterlichen Wasserburg mit dem Bau von Schloss Dahme, der nach etwa vier Jahren Bauzeit mit einem markanten Mittelrisalit fertig gestellt werden konnte. Auch erfuhr der Garten durch das Anlegen von Lusthäuschen, Sandsteinskulpturen und Grotten eine Umgestaltung im barocken Stil. Friedrich konnte das Schloss jedoch nicht mehr beziehen, da er bereits kurz vor Vollendung des Baues starb. Stattdessen bezog seine Gemahlin Emilie Agnes Reuß zu Schleiz das Schloss als Witwensitz, den sie später aber hauptsächlich in ihren anderen Herrschaften (aus erster Ehe) Fürstlich Drehna und Vetschau aufschlug, wo sie auch 1729 verstarb. Der spätere Herzog und letzte Regent von Sachsen-Weißenfels Johann Adolf (II.) führte die Bauarbeiten ab 1719 fort und machte das Dahmer Schloss zu seiner zeitweiligen Residenz.

Herzog Friedrich starb am 16. April 1715 41-jährig und wurde in einem Zinnprunksarg in der Schlosskirche von Neu-Augustusburg zu Weißenfels beigesetzt.

Seine einzige Ehe schloss er am 13. Februar 1711 in Fürstlich Drehna mit Emilie Agnes Reuß zu Schleiz, verwitweter Reichsgräfin von Promnitz zu Pleß auf Sorau und Triebel, der Tochter Graf Heinrichs I. Reuß zu Schleiz aus dessen Ehe mit Esther von Hardegg auf Glatz und im Machlande, Tochter des Grafen Julius III. von Hardegg auf Glatz und im Machlande. Die Ehe blieb ohne Nachkommen.

Friedrichs nunmehriger Stiefsohn Erdmann II. von Promnitz und seine Nichte Anna Maria von Sachsen-Weißenfels hatten bereits 1705 geheiratet.


 * Friedrich took up residence in Dahme and commissioned the architects Johann Christoph Schütze and Elias Scholtz starting in 1711 with the construction of the Dahme Palace (Schloss Dahme) around the remains of the medieval Wasserburg (Water Castle). Construction was completed after about four years with a striking central risalit (vertical projection). The garden also underwent a reconstruction in baroque style with the installation of pleasure cottages, sandstone sculptures, and grottoes. Friedrich was, however, unable to move into the palace, as he died shortly before construction was completed. Instead, his consort Emilie Agnes Reuß zu Schleiz moved into the palace as a widow's residence. However, she later mainly resided in her other estates (from her first marriage), Princely Drehna and Vetschau, where she died in 1729. The later duke and last ruler of Saxe-Weissenfels, Johann Adolf II, continued construction from 1719 and made the Dahme Palace his temporary residence.


 * Duke Friedrich died on 16 April 1715 at the age of 41 and was buried in an ornate pewter casket in the castle church of New Augustusburg Castle in Weißenfels.


 * He entered into his only marriage on 13 February 1711 in Princely Drehna with Emilie Agnes Reuß zu Schleiz, the widowed imperial countess of Promnitz-Pleß in Sorau and Triebel, the daughter of Count Heinrich I of Reuss-Schleiz and Esther of Hardegg-Glatz and -Marchlande, daughter of Count Julius III of Hardegg-Glatz and -Marchlande. The marriage left no offspring.


 * Friedrich's future stepson, Erdmann II of Promnitz, and his niece, Anna Maria of Saxe-Weissenfels, had married in 1705. Marco polo (talk) 03:11, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Spanish consonant 'ñ'
There isn’t anything more, so ask this again. It's not simply the orthographic representation for the single sound [ɲ] as staed before, though it seems correct in a word like ‘paño’. It is not the sound of a digraph as in English, because it seems the cluster ‘n’ and ‘g’ (say, ‘combination’, in order to avoid the ambiguity) always creates syllable break in Spanish whereas the combination is always a diagraph in English. And in the case, in a word like ‘pañito’ (see ‘pañito’),  the 'ñ' does not represent a double ‘n’ or gemination but something else. So what does the diacritic mean for 'ñ'? —Mihkaw napéw (talk) 01:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * In fact, 'ñ' is simply the orthographic representation in Spanish of the single sound [ɲ]. Your dictionary link transcribes this sound as 'ny' for English speakers, because the closest approximation to this sound in English is the consonant cluster we use to pronounce a word like canyon.  However, in Spanish, 'ñ' represents a single sound, [ɲ], that does not occur in English.  Marco polo (talk) 02:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * So the [ɲ] always represent the orthography 'ñ', except in few cases as stated in the prevous edit. That makes sense. —Mihkaw napéw (talk) 03:07, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * How is it different from the "gn" sound in Italian, e.g. "lasagna"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:41, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Mihkaw: ñ means the sound [ɲ]. You have been told this numerous times before. And you have not provided a single example of a word in which ñ does not represent [ɲ], so there are no "cases" stated in your "previous edit". r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 07:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Bugs: it's the same sound, see IPA for Italian and IPA for Spanish. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 07:50, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rjanag, it makes sense now, but you usually fool around many irrelevant things; that’s why. However, it does not mean that you do not understand matters in questions; you do. The serious problem that you have is to explain something in the code of conduct like other editors and misleading the readers purposely  (knowing readers capacities on what one can or cannot understand). However, as you do contributions to WP (which I do not), it is not fare that i criticize your inputs and making traps for any of your comments that you claim to be an expert by education and experiences.
 * At the same time, if you do not have here at least one person like I am for linguistic or language prey, there can not be useful and good explanations or of your being of desistence is also remetted in the absence of such loopholes to have continuing communication and cooperation with other editors. So I guess we should keep similar things but not that strong (which is an arbitrary attention. —Mihkaw napéw (talk) 18:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Instead of complaining about whatever this is (I have no idea where you think I've "misled you purposely"), why don't you just offer an example of a word where ñ does not represent [ɲ]? If there is no such example (i.e., if Spanish ñ always represents [ɲ]), then your question has already been answered and you have nothing to whine about. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 17:48, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * But you did imply there were instances of when ñ doesn't represent a palatal nasal, namely when it occurs in English: jalapeño, El niño, piñata, piña colada, and Quinceañera. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 19:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I did not imply that, Mihkaw naphew did. And I don't see how English pronunciations are relevant; in Spanish, all these words are pronounced with [ɲ], which is what ñ represents. Unless Mihkaw can come up with some example that challenges this, I don't see why this pointless discussion was ever even initiated. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 20:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oui sí. Danke! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * May I suggest, in the interest of conserving mental energy, that Rjanag and Mihkaw napew bury the hatchet (give up your conflict)? It's clear that Mihkaw napew is frustrated because he has had difficulty understanding the connection between orthography and phonetics in this case and because Rjanag has seemed not to AGF on Mihkaw's part.  Also, it's clear that Rjanag is frustrated by what he sees as obtuseness or a lack of good faith.  (I, however, see no reason to doubt good faith.)  May I suggest that we remember that each person comes to this with different abilities and educations and try to be patient with one another?  Thanks.  Marco polo (talk) 16:11, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I never said lack of good faith; obtuseness is precisely what it is. I have reason to believe Mihkaw does not even read most of the responses to his questions. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 14:38, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think you're failing to assume good faith, but you are coming off a little WP:BITEy. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  18:30, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Mihkaw napew is hardly a 'newcomer' --ColinFine (talk) 23:57, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter (though I disagree), since WP:BITE doesn't apply just to newcomers. It seems pretty clear from Mihkaw's comments that Rjanag is not making Mihkaw feel welcome. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  02:56, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Send in the 'Narines
Over the past few years, the West Indies cricket team has included in its ranks Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Sewnarine Chattergoon, and Dinanath Ramnarine. Its current side includes a player with the name Narsingh Deonarine. Outside this context, I've never encountered names of this form - where does the -narine suffix come from (my guess is probably the Indian subcontinent, since that's whereall of these players' ancestries are from IIRC), and what, if anything, does it mean?

Thanks in advance, Grutness...wha?  07:05, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * deleted one name I had listed. It was a brainfart misremembrance


 * My brother in law's first name is Ramnarine. His family is Guyanese, as is Mark Ramprakash. Apparently these names are signs of a descendancy from the Indian servants of the British rulers of Guyana (which used to be called "British Guiana"), who came across from India during the colonisation of that country. ISTR the phrase used to describe these people was "Anglo-Indian". As to what "narine" means, not even my brother in law knows! --TammyMoet (talk) 09:13, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a variant of Narayana, and can either stand alone or be compounded with other names, like Shiva (to make Shivnarine) and Rama (to make Ramnarine). I suspect it should be pronounced to rhyme with "brine" rather than "marine". +Angr 19:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow thanks for that Angr - I'll tell my bil when I see him next week! And yes it does rhyme with "brine".--TammyMoet (talk) 19:51, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info - and though I've heard both pronunciations the "brine" one sounds more likely. The pun was too good to resist, though :) Grutness...wha?  20:17, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Shanghiese
Is the Wu wikipedia banned?174.3.102.6 (talk) 07:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The easiest way to find out would probably be to ask a friend in mainland China to try accessing it. r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 07:50, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's only the easiest way if one happens to have a friend in mainland China. +Angr 11:02, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Does List_of_websites_blocked_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China help? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  17:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * When I went to China during July and August this year, most of the Chinese language Wikipedia was unblocked except for sensitive political subjects. I would expect the same for the Wu Wikipedia but I didn't check that one specifically. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 23:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's probably not often strongly blocked, because it has less traffic, but I have known the whole Wikipedia domain to be blocked in China. | This test tool says it's not currently blocked. Steewi (talk) 01:54, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Languages of Wikipedia
Just out of curiosity, I'd like to find a list of all the European languages lacking (at the moment) their own Wikipedia version. For example: North Frisian, Ladin, Rusyn. --151.51.35.203 (talk) 12:20, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * North Frisian isn't really a language, but rather a language grouping; from a description I once read, traditionally each village or small group of villages or small island had its own divergent dialect. If there's no standardized language, and a decreasing number of speakers, and no strong revival movement, then the need for a Wikipedia isn't necessarily clear... AnonMoos (talk) 13:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind that only languages with a valid ISO 639-3 code can have their own Wikipedia. Since North Frisian has a code, it could have a Wikipedia, but since its dialects do not have separate codes, they couldn't have separate Wikipedias. +Angr 18:27, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Why can only a language with a valid ISO 639-3 code have its own Wikipedia? --62.204.152.181 (talk) 18:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Because that's the rule. There are some exceptions, such as the Dutch Low Saxon Wikipedia (Dutch Low Saxon has seven distinct ISO 639-3 codes for each of its dialects, but just one all-encompassing Wikipedia), but they were created before the rule came into effect. +Angr 19:39, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You'd have to work backwards from List of Wikipedias. —— Shakescene (talk) 13:08, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Evidence of Danish accent?
In Danish, <d> is silent after <l>, <n>, and/or <r> at the end of a word. In the song Barbie Girl, the singers (who are Danish and Norwegian) drop the [d] sound at the end of words like world, blond, friend, and around. Could this be interpreted as evidence of the singers' Danish accents? 69.114.95.168 (talk) 22:20, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not conclusively. It could be expected of a Danish accent, but this is also a feature of a number of ther English varieties (including casual speech in my own Australian variety). Steewi (talk) 01:58, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Danish <d> is not silent after <l>, <n> and <r> at the end of a word in those combinations it represents a glottal stop the socalled stød. I don't think that dropping final consonants in words as world, blond, friend is typical of a danish accent. It would be more typical to devoice them and pronounce them as t. ·Maunus· ƛ · 16:17, 21 December 2009 (UTC)