Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 February 11

= February 11 =

about .net language
what is the basic requirement to learn .net....somebody told me to have knowledge of dbms before learning it.is it true?please answer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nareshrohra (talk • contribs) 11:39, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If you're wanting to write programs that access databases (e.g. for web applications) with .NET, it would be very useful to have knowledge of the basics of relational database architecture, SQL, etc, whatever framework or language you are programming in. However, if you're not working with databases, I can't see any need for that.  The main languages for .NET are Visual Basic and C; the former is sometimes taught as a first language for people unskilled in programming, and was designed for non-programmers, so it would have few prerequisites.  Knowledge of C++ (or possibly Java) might help with C, since C# is based largely on C++, but in some ways C# is simpler than C++ (e.g. memory management). --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 12:41, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * To learn software development, I recommend going to school and earning a degree in Computer Science. Strictly speaking, it is not necessary to understand relational database theory.  That is to say that it is possible to write applications that don't use a database.  However, most business applications use databases to store data so for most situations, it is necessary.
 * BTW, the Langauge Reference Desk is for human languages (English, French, Latin, etc.). For computer programming languages, you'll probably get better answers from the Computing Reference Desk. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 13:45, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Question for Londoners and other H-droppers
In the h-dropping dialects of England like Cockney and Estuary English, does the h get dropped in words like huge and human, i.e. do they sound like "yooj" and "yooman"? Because to my ears those pronunciations sound typically American (but only a minority in AmEng) and not British at all. —Angr 11:48, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * To my ears, the H is just about hanging on in those words but is very short and very soft. - X201 (talk) 11:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * A Survey of Modern English by Stephan Gramley and Kurt-Michael Pätzold says "there are no limits in Cockney on the words beginning with  which may sometimes occur without /h/", so potentially dropping can occur on any h-word. However, speakers tend to pronounce H's sometimes but not other times, so you will hear both "human" and "yuman". --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 12:53, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Newfies pronounce human as yuman too.--Sonjaaa (talk) 16:41, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

In Sue Towsend's Adrian Mole books, someone (I think it was a Londoner) says to Adrian: "Hor hare you the next poet Laureate? Hand hif you hare, may I hoffer you my hutmost congratulations?" 194.100.223.164 (talk) 11:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sure I've heard human pronounced as "hyoom'n" (the standard English way) by English people who drop other aitches, and I don't think I've ever come across one of those stage Cockneys who sprays superfluous haitches haround. I have noticed that a lot of less educated English people now say "haitch" instead of "aitch". In fact, it's clearly gaining ground. My impression from taxi drivers and others in London is that the aitch isn't dropped half as much as it was when I was passing through as a boy. Of course, in the world of mass communication, all regional accents and dialects are said to be losing their character as time goes by.  Strawless  (talk) 22:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

shakespeare
theories of shakespeare tragedy ?classical,medieval,renaissance,and modern. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.234.206.196 (talk) 17:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have a question or were you looking for something like List of Shakespeare's works? Livewireo (talk) 21:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you wanting general theories of tragedy, or specific writing on Shakespeare? (I doubt Classical Greek or Roman writers would have much to say about Shakespeare.) Have you seen Tragedy? It seems a pretty good overview. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 11:19, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Homework assignment? DOR (HK) (talk) 10:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Try looking at the links from Shakespeare's plays, such as bardweb.net/works. Strawless  (talk) 22:32, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

albert camus
Albert Camus, how do you pronounce that? Mike said that 'CAM ISS' was incorrect and said, since it was French, it's like CAM O or CAM UU. Evaunit ♥666♥ 18:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * According to our article, the proper French pronunciation is . Those exact vowels don't exist in most dialects of English, but CAM UU (where UU is the vowel of boot) is pretty close, especially if you're Scottish. Algebraist 18:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The final vowel is this sound, see: Close front rounded vowel. There's a sound sample on the right side --130.237.179.182 (talk) 22:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * This is pronounced just like every other French -u- when it's the only vowel in a syllable. You really need to hear it, if you don't know how it's pronounced. Strawless  (talk) 23:17, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Pronuncation of "Australia"
I happen to have an Australian co-worker who lives in Finland. The way I hear it, he keeps pronouncing "Australia" by swallowing the "l", making it sound like "Austraya". Am I just imagining this, or is this normal for Australian speakers of English? J I P | Talk 19:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you mean Strine ? Of course, in afferbeck lauder they come before my neck of the woods.--Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:20, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No, he talks in normal English, not in an exaggerated Australian accent. He just keeps pronouncing "Australia" that way. J I P | Talk 19:41, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * This is - unfortunately, imo - very common in Australia. Miyyons of Austrayans speak like that. It's something that's very often commented on in the media and in general debate in the community.  Some of our lawmakers are the worst offenders - Anthony Albanese, for example.  Pauline Hanson (Pauline who?) was another.  --  JackofOz (talk) 20:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Interesting. Parallel to Spanish, in which in many dialects, the double-l sound is pronounced as Y instead of LY. (Sorry, I'm IPA-illiterate). See Yeísmo. --NorwegianBluetalk 22:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And, in English, the Philadelphia dialect displays the same trend, for example, when the name of the city is often pronounced "Phee-ya-def-ee-aa" or something like that. The relevent article for this sort of pronounciation, BTW, is L-vocalization, which discusses the trend in detail.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  03:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And does Camilo Villegas really pronounce his last name as VeeJAYgas, or is it just Anglo golf announcers who can't get it right? Their pronunciation really bugs me.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 06:48, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It's possible, though I'm not sure how prevalent Zheísmo is in Colombia. ¿SFGi  Д  nts!  ¿Complain! ¿Analyze! ¿Review! 02:51, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Further confirmed from me. I often call my country Straya''. Another common feature of Australian English is to realise initial /θ/ to [h] in lax speech (as in "'Hanks, mate"), although few will notice that they do it until you tell them. Steewi (talk) 04:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You can usually pick a South Australian by their tendency to swallow l at the end of words - like "school" (which sounds like skoow). They insist they're pronouncing the l, but the rest of us can never hear it.  That's different from the "(au)straya" thing, though; those speakers (generally) don't even try to say the l. Then there are those who try too hard - and it comes as out as "Əstrahlyə".  My mnemonic is simple - it rhymes with "failure" (although, there are some who say "fayya", so we'd be back at square 1). --  JackofOz (talk) 06:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * @Steewi - the replacement of /θ/ by other fricatives seems to be quite common cross-linguistically - not just London /f/, but in Irish, lenited &lt;t> is written &lt;th> (and presumably originally /θ/) but now /h/.


 * @JackOfOz - many speakers of non-rhotic English are quite certain that they are pronouncing the /r/ in words like 'car' and 'care'. --ColinFine (talk) 08:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Its more than that. Non-rhotic english speakers can also hear the difference between words with non-rhotic "r" in them and those without them.  In New England, for example, while the "r" is not pronounced as such, the vowel preceding the "r" is often modified slightly so as to be recognizable as a different sound.  For example, no Bostonian would confuse "Bar" with the sound a sheep makes, "Bah".  Its an interesting thing that many non-rhotic English dialects have a wider variety of recognized vowel sounds, for example many non-rhotic dialects also recognized a distinction in sound between cot/caught and Mary/merry/marry where as many rhotic dialects do not draw such distinctions.  Its not that the "r" does not get pronounced, its just that the "r" is not pronounced like non-rhotic speakers pronounce it.  Similarly the L-vocalization shown in several Australian dialects is not that the L dissapears entirely, or is indistinguisable from other sounds, its that it is indistinguishable for non-native speakers.  There are lots of sounds that work this way, such as the L-R merger for speakers of several asian languages, or the aspirated/non-aspirated stop distinction (such as ph vs. p) found in south asian (India) languages not present in English.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  16:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Dates of Joining letter
Hello there, I am having trouble with dates mentioned in this sample joining letter. At the top of the page the date is 27 February, 2007 but in the body, it is 25 April, 2007. As far as I know the person is joining today (27 February 2007) but he has stated appointment letter dated on 25 April, 2007. Appointment letter supposed to be received before 27 February. Correct me if I'm mistaken?--115.127.16.11 (talk) 19:47, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

P.S One more thing, if they send acceptance letter, then should it be acceptance letter dated.... instead of appointment letter... in the body of the letter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.127.16.11 (talk) 19:50, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The date at the top is or should be replaced with, the date this letter is being sent (e.g. today). The other is the date of the letter that they sent you (assuming this is personal) so that they can get hold of the records of it. This should be replaced with the date of the letter they sent you. If you're replying to an acceptance letter, it won't make any difference - you should probably use the term they used on the last letter they sent you. - Jarry1250 (t, c) 21:00, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * From the address it's clear that the sample letter is aimed at an Asian audience, and it may meet your need. By UK (and I would guess US) standards it's old-fashioned and over-formal to an almost absurd degree. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 13:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Two continents divided by a single language.... BrainyBabe (talk) 15:25, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I find that sample letter a bizarre marriage of the old and the new, absurd more for its poor English than for its over-formality. The casual ending "regards" may have been spawned by email. Strawless  (talk) 23:12, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

vietnamese translation huong tra
i saw a restaurant called H'uo.ng T'ra. (periods for dots under letters, apostrophes for accents) what does that mean and how do you pronounce it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Troyster87 (talk • contribs) 22:44, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Vietnamese alphabet, Vietnamese phonology to start with. AnonMoos (talk) 23:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a Sino-Vietnamese compound word, meaning "fragrant tea" (Hương Trà 香茶).--K.C. Tang (talk) 03:25, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * IPA:, roughly. ¿SFGi  Д  nts!  ¿Complain! ¿Analyze! ¿Review! 02:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

spanish translation slither, thrust
how do you say slither in spanish? how do you describe the movement of snakes/worms? and how do you say thrust as in i thrusted deep inside her ass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Troyster87 (talk • contribs) 22:54, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You may want to check out various internet translators such as InterTran or Babelfish. They generally do an OK job on individual words, but for phrases and idioms, they don't often get it right.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  01:53, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I did but i'm never quite convinced, since i am a native spanish speaker.Troyster87 (talk) 21:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, while Wikipedia is not censored, you probably could have chosen a less prurient sentance as your example for "thrusted". Merely because you can do something does not always mean that it is in your own, or others, best interest to do so... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  01:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * wow i love the word "prurient" thanks for the intro! well when it comes to sex, it was a sexually related question. i wanted to know how i can tell someone i want to thrust into their ass, not their posterior, that wouldn't be something that i would think would get them off. so grow up.Troyster87 (talk) 21:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, the standard past tense forms of to thrust are not thrusted, but thrust (in both American and British English). Like set, right? You wouldn't write I setted the whole thing up, would you? So:
 * Yeah i noticed that myself as i was writing the question however, i like speaking incorrectly idiomatically in that manner so i let it stand, but when i'm writing a term paper it would totally be i thrust into her ass.


 * "She thrust and pulled the banana till it was free from the bunch."
 * "We have thrust swords at each other long enough, Conan."
 * And Jayron32 is right: save gratuitously confronting language for the gutter, Anonymous.
 * – ⊥¡ɐɔıʇǝo N oetica! T– 02:43, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Deslizar is a good all-purpose word for slither (and slide). For thrust, try clavar or hincar as in Hinqué en su culo, or Clavé en su culo. You can also use meter, but it's not forceful. You should specify what you're thrusting though, or it doesn't sound right. In colloquial Spanish, I've heard it simply as "Le daba en el culo." Steewi (talk) 04:26, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Clavé is sort of the word that i was looking for but i remember a work more similar to hincar, sin embargo i am looking for some other word i heard.


 * When describing the movement of a snake, I think you'd usually use the reflexive form of the verb - deslizarse (La serpiente se deslizó ...) --NorwegianBluetalk 09:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * '''hmmm also what i really wanted to know how to say was thrusting in the sense of repeated insertion and withdrawal. not ramming it in.Troyster87 (talk) 05:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)