Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 January 18

= January 18 =

Tetramorium caespitum
The scientific name for the pavement ant is Tetramorium caespitum and I'd like to know what that name means in Latin. I figured out that caespes (I believe) means a mound of dirt (thus caespitum means "of mounds of dirt"), which makes sense because that would be the kind of nest they typically made back in the 1700's when it was named. However, I can't figure out what Tetramorium means, although I'm guessing it has something to do with death. I can't find the word in my Latin dictionary. Jonathan talk 00:15, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That's because it's Greek. ("Tetra" is the Greek prefix for four.)  "Morion" means a small piece.  Presumably the "caespitum" bit refers to anthills.  According to Tetramorium, the name came from the same publication as Monomorium.  So it's the ant with four little bits, that makes hills.  Of course, that doesn't help with what the four little bits are.  Nothing is obvious in the descriptions of the genus that I can find.  But I located the original article which named these buggers:  by looking at ITIS and following a link to Ohio State here: .  Mayr's article gives "Glied" as the translation of "morion" (see pp 423 and 452), which interestingly is the German word for "penis", and it's quite plausible that "morion" would be a euphemism for "penis".  On p 423 he seems to say that there are four "Unterkiefertaster" which I guess is under-piny-knob or something like that.  Someone with better German might be able to get more from the article. Tb (talk) 01:08, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "Glied" is the German for "member" or "limb" or just "part (of something larger)". It might be euphemistically used for penis in the same way "member" might be euphemistically used in English, but in this case it simply means "bit", the same as the Greek does. "Kiefer" broadly means "jaw" (though it can also mean "pine"). The Unterkiefer of an insect are the maxillae and I believe Unterkiefertaster would be a reference to the palps of the maxillae. In the text you reference it states "Die Unterkiefertaster sind vier-, die Lippentaster dreigliedrig" ("The palps of the maxillae are composed of four segments, the palps of the labrum labium are in three segments") and the text notes that the four Glieder referred to in the scientific name are those of the maxillary palps. Valiantis (talk) 04:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! My Germain is limited to what I can get from online dictionaries, pretty much.  Tb (talk) 04:26, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Just as a clarification (as I am more interested in etymology than entomology!), it has been bugging me since I last posted as to "maxilla" = "Unterkiefer". In humans "maxilla" = the upper jaw. However, the German Wikipedia page on insect mouthparts uses the same diagram as the English page and clearly labels the maxilla as "Unterkiefer". The terminology appears to be reversed in insects and mammals. My single-volume Duden has nothing useful to say re: Maxille, but on Mandibeln it glosses this as the Oberkiefer of insects, whilst noting the adjective mandibelär refers in a medical context to the lower jaw ("Unterkiefer"). Valiantis (talk) 05:41, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's Greek!!! Sorry, I might have realized that earlier... oh well. Thanks a lot for the help. I'm glad to know what the scientific name of the species actually means now :D I see these ants a lot. I'll have to take a closer look at their mouthparts. Jonathan talk 15:07, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

help with a spanish translation
i don't speak spanish so well and i couldn't explain to my mom that "i threw my back out" how do you say this in spanish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.82.231 (talk) 07:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yo eche mi bolsa, madre. -- PS T  08:52, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ok my Spanish isn't that bad. I that should be Me heché mí bolsa (it's "i threw my back out" not i threw my back out 'mother'") Yeah yo before a verb is always redundant, "eche" is in the present tense and misspelled, and unaccented; mi is lacking an accent. So all that makes me question wether or not that translation is even on the spot after copyediting. anyone else give it a shot? My mom's from Chile so if there's a regionalism variant that would be perfecto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.82.231 (talk) 09:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What PST wrote means "I threw out (i.e., discarded) my bag." "I hurt my back" can be translated by Me lastimé la espalda. I'm not sure exactly how to convey the idea that there was some kind of dislocation, as "throwing one's back out" seems to imply, but most people who say they threw their back out probably aren't as badly hurt as that. Joeldl (talk) 12:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought that it was a typo (that you meant "I threw my bag out"). Honestly speaking, I have never heard of the idiomatic expression "I threw my back out". "Yo" should be there because you want to emphasize that it is you who threw out your bag. Textbooks teaching Spanish have this bad habit of emphasizing that you should not use "Yo", "tu" and such. It is true in most cases but when you want to emphasize that it is you, it is appropriate to use these pronouns. The verb "to throw" is "echar". Of course, if you wanted to translate "I threw out my back" the verb is most certainly reflexive as Joeldl noted. The most common example of a reflexive verb is "llamarse" but of course there are others. -- PS T  13:32, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Huh. "To throw one's back out" is common English. Usually specifically means getting one's spine disarranged and putting undue pressure on a disc, especially for someone for whom this is a recurring problem. I wouldn't know anything more precise and colloquial in Spanish than Me lastimé la espalda; if this is, indeed, a recurring thing you might get that across with Me lastimé otra vez la espalda - Jmabel | Talk 05:15, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

BTW, echar & hechar are two different verbs, and User:Point-set topologist, though misunderstanding your question, was correct in choosing echar here, not hechar. - Jmabel | Talk 05:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe I have never heard of that expression because I have never "thrown my back out" or seen someone who has "thrown their back out". What Jmabel noted above is important because in Spanish (unlike English), you may have a different verb depending on the context. For example, "to save energy" (conservar) is a different verb "to save one's life" (salvar) which is again a different verb "to save a file or to keep some belongings" (guardar). It is important to distinguish such things (also "por" and "para") in Spanish. -- PS T  08:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * British English is more likely to use "I put my back out". Bazza (talk) 14:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That helps. My English-Spanish dictionary is from Britain, and it didn't have the required sense of "throw out." It translates "I put my shoulder out" as Me disloqué or Me zafé un hombro, giving zafarse as Mexican or Chilean. However, this appears to literally mean "dislocate," and you can "dislocate" your back only in a manner of speaking. At most, you might dislocate a vertebra or something like that. Joeldl (talk) 17:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * you are still wrong you shouldn't use yo, you should use me and i finally figured out how to explain this to my mom. also lastimar is the wrong verb. it's like saying me lastimé mí brazo when you have broken your arm, sure you have injured/hurt your arm, but its more than that. now the way to say i threw my back out is. se me desaliniaron una serie de discos en mi columna, mamá when i told my mom me zafé she understood dislocation. thanks for all the help guys!!! now i have one more question, how do you say wheezing in spanish.. is it catarro?Troyster87 (talk) 09:57, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Korean: Hungnam-ni
In the film I'm translating, a Korean woman says she's from Hungnam-ni. Does that mean she's from the city of Hungnam? A particular part of Hungnam? Or another city? Thank you! 80.202.37.154 (talk) 13:00, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hungnam-ni [40°15'0"N 127°35'0"E] is in South Hamgyong province, in North Korea (DPRK), so it would be like saying, "I'm from Boston."DOR (HK) (talk) 09:35, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "Ri" is the smallest unit of administrative division in Korea. In other words, she comes from a small village, Hungnam Village. See administrative divisions of South Korea for hints, please. (The article for North Korea isn't as detailed, but I suspect the divisions will be similar.) --Kjoonlee 23:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * For the inexperienced reader: "ri" is often changed to "i" or "ni" in South Korea. --Kjoonlee 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

interpretation ("Is ice hot or cold?")
hi, what is the answer for the q:Is Ice Hot or Cold? Iwould like to have the interpretation. It is becoz I couldnt give my comments in a website as I went wrong for this q. Note: I answered in two ways: Ice is hot. Ice is cold. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sriraga (talk • contribs) 14:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * "Hot" and "cold" are relative. Normally they mean that a temperature is so much higher (hot) or lower (cold) than the normal human body temperature of about 37 °C that it would cause discomfort to a human being. "Ice" normally refers to solid water. It can exist at normal earth pressures at temperatures between about 0 °C and just above absolute zero (−273.15 °C). So, in the ordinary sense of the words in your question, ice is cold. --Milkbreath (talk) 20:15, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * And then there's advertising icyhot. - 76.97.245.5 (talk) 09:29, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Consequent next step
Could anyone tell me how the phrase "consequent next step" orginated and what it means? Is it a correct expression? A Google search gave only 353 results. Most of these related to advancement in technology. The latest mention was by the Indian prime minister. Does "consequent" mean "logical"? In that case shouldn't it be "next consequent (logical) step", which evidently is odd? Does it mean 'important" or "of consequence"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.227.88.34 (talk) 16:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It meens "following", but with the sense of naturalness or expectedness. So, you could paraphrase "consequent next step" as "the next step to follow on".  It is kind of clunky to me.  Tb (talk) 17:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Using consequent with next step sounds tautological, like "future plans". So yes, it's a style fault, but frequently found in politician-speak among others. "Next step" is enough on its own. The "logical next step" narrows it down if is a choice among many kinds of next steps, perhaps, but still sounds like a surplus. Julia Rossi (talk) 02:00, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

My doubt hasn't yet been cleared, but thank you for trying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.227.88.34 (talk) 17:45, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Standard Liberian English
I am interested in hearing spoken Standard Liberian English; is there a good source where I could do so? Or are there any well known speakers with sound bits? I would also like to read the text if possible. And, if absolutely and fully ideal, I would like to get a free use sound clip to upload to Wikimedia Commons for use in the aforementioned article. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:53, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * See (and hear) STAR radio Liberia. -- Wavelength (talk) 22:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * See STAR radio. -- Wavelength (talk) 23:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Capitalize names of literary genres
Should one capitalize names of literary genres, e.g. 'Science Fiction' or 'science fiction'? Debresser (talk) 16:48, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd say "science fiction". —Angr 16:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * See also WP:MOSCAPS. Tb (talk) 17:20, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a good argument. Extrapolating from musical genres to literary genres. And architectural styles, for that matter. Debresser (talk) 11:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)