Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 January 2

= January 2 =

spanish translation
how do you say gastric bypass surgery in spanish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.82.231 (talk) 05:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * On the Spanish obesity page under "Cirugía bariátrica" it's called "bypass gástrico" or for the full term "Cirurgia bypass gástrico" (confirmed by googling).  Lisa4edit76.97.245.5 (talk) 07:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

polín
what is a polín, i looked it up at rae.es (la real academia española website) but didn't understand most of the words in the definition, what is it? is it like "rafters" or "wood" or "barn"? could someone translate the definition for me? "Rodillo que se coloca debajo de fardos, bultos, etc., de gran peso, para que, girando, los transporte." and "Trozo de madera prismático, que sirve para levantar fardos en los almacenes, y aislarlos del suelo." What i really don't get is what a "fardo" is defined as "Lío grande de ropa u otra cosa, muy apretado, para poder llevarlo de una parte a otra. Se hace regularmente con las mercancías que se han de transportar, cubriéndolas con arpillera o lienzo embreado o encerado, para que no se maltraten." I don't understand lío in this sense, as i thought it meant, issue or problem or polemic. is it pully? anyways, what is polín in english?Troyster87 (talk) 08:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Polín comes from French poulain, which first means "a colt; a young horse", and then has derivative meanings that correspond roughly to those for polín in the DRAE. First, it's a little rodillo, which is a roller. Such rollers you might place under a heavy object to move it along without friction. Second, a similar piece of wood, or other such protective padding, placed under bulky objects to keep them off the ground. There is an exact English word corresponding to this latter meaning, but for the moment it eludes me. There is a third, regional meaning in DRAE: Traviesa de ferrocarril. That's a railway sleeper, which I think helps to elucidate the other meanings.
 * – ⊥ ¡ɐɔıʇǝo  N  oetica! T– 11:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And that's what's called a railroad tie in American. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 15:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * foal; caster; chock. -lysdexia 13:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

French beard
"French beard" is a common name for goatee in India. Was the slang introduced by the British? Is it prevalent throughout the Commonwealth? Jay (talk) 10:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I can't remember hearing it in Australia. It is not in OED; and since it does appear here in an online dictionary of Indian English, I suspect that it is confined to India.
 * – ⊥ ¡ɐɔıʇǝo  N  oetica! T– 11:36, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * When I read French beard, the image that came to mind matched the description in the goatee article of the "musketeer" style of beard. So I don't think it is hard to image the connection of the term French beard with these subtypes of goatee. Rmhermen (talk) 21:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Understanding foreign accents
How difficult is it understanding a foreigner who doesn`t differenciate between:

-[ʌ] and [ɒ] -[æ] and [a]

Cosidering that it`s the vowels that differ more between local variants of English, is it a huge problem?--88.27.176.105 (talk) 12:16, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The second merger ([æ] and [a]) is pretty common in foreign pronunciations of English, and I think that most English speakers would have no trouble understanding someone who made that merger. The first merger ([ʌ] and [ɒ]) is not one that I am used to hearing in a foreign accent.  I think that English speakers could generally understand someone who merged those vowels, but there would certainly be cases of ambiguity, since those are common vowels (at least in American English), and they are phonemic.  So I think that listeners might be confused and/or misunderstand some of that person's speech.  Marco polo (talk) 01:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This sounds like a fun game. Come up with a few dozen minimal pairs and then go into the world pronouncing them all with the same vowel.  — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  04:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Je n'ai plus besoin d'eux
I was just listening to "Non, je ne regrette rien" and noticed that at one point Piaf sings "Je n'ai plus besoin d'eux." Why is this okay? I think my high school French teacher would have marked it wrong if I had written that instead of "Je n'en ai plus besoin." Is it colloquial? Is it poetic license? Is something else going on here that I'm unaware of? —Angr 21:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Normally you would have Je n'ai plus besoin d'eux for persons, and Je n'en ai plus besoin for animals or things. In the song, the line preceding is Mes chagrins, mes plaisirs, so en is expected. But Grevisse (Le bon usage, 1959, §498) allows d'eux also, in reference to things personified or "déterminés et individuels", or to avoid an ambiguity. There is a case for considering the chagrins and plaisirs as in a way personified; and anyway poetic licence generally, and the demands of prosody and of rhyme (with J'ai allumé le feu) in particular, justify d'eux.
 * Reciprocally, Grevisse allows (at §502) that en may be used for persons. The first example he gives is one using peuple – a rather "impersonal" way of referring to people en bloc.
 * – ⊥ ¡ɐɔıʇǝo  N  oetica! T– 23:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely your high school teacher would have pointed out that it's a song, not a dictée. Or would he or she have been too busy trying to correct Georges Brassens?  --- OtherDave (talk) 15:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

French translation please
Hi - I mistakenly posted this on the Humanities Desk, but have moved it here, with some amendments. Can anyone tell me what a 'tableau of the dead' would be called in French (as opposed to a tableau vivant)? - and while you're at it, what would the French be for a 'tableau of the half-alive'?

Thanks all Adambrowne666 (talk) 23:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

PS - I moved Adam Bishop's answer too, which was responding to a slightly different query.


 * I guessed "tableau mort" might be the opposite, and Google suggests that that refers to an image created with dead, preserved animals, or a depiction of someone's death. (That seems not to be really the opposite of a tableau vivant but I imagine it would be difficult to use dead people to stage a scene...) Perhaps for "tableau of the half-dead" you could use "tableau mort-vivant" (borrowing from the French title of "Night of the Living Dead"). Adam Bishop (talk) 13:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Btw, if it's about "still life" in art, it's "nature morte" in French. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Julia - nature morte is great - would tableau semi-vivant work for a tableau of the half-alive? 18:57, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I suspect semi-vivant is semi-alive and demi-vivant is half-alive. You might like to google the works of Helen Chadwick who (I think) combined living and dead objects, but not totally sure. The thing about "nature morte" is that things may be living (like food oops, fruit and flowers) or dead (game birds) or just not moving around (inkwells, books and musical instruments) so I'm wondering if there's a demi-life implied in "nature" and "morte"? Much more interesting if you can push it further though, Julia Rossi (talk) 22:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)