Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 January 25

= January 25 =

Translation from French to English
I recently asked for the translation of the following old quotation from French to English: ”Ils ont des fragments de la Mischne, qu’ils n’entendent pas, et ils ne firent que me dire le titre de quelques chapitres.” I appreciate the users who did this translation for me. I have now found a very slightly different version of this quotation. Instead of “firent” there is “surent” and instead of “quelques chapitres” there is “quelque chapitre”. The latter version will obviously change “some chapters” to the singular “some chapter” but will “surent” instead of “firent” make any difference to the translation? Thank you.Simonschaim (talk) 08:27, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quelque chapitre does indeed mean "some chapter" but, unlike quelques chapitres "some chapters," is now restricted to literary language. As for surent, it's the simple past of savoir "to know." In this case, it can be translated as "all they could do was..." or "all they were able to do was..." Joeldl (talk) 08:59, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you.Simonschaim (talk) 18:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Translation
Hi, how would you say "For uor fathers" in Italian and in German? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atacamadesert12 (talk • contribs) 13:31, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * German: "Für unsere Väter", Italian: "Per nostri padri" Lantzytalk 13:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * For Italian: "per i nostri padri". The definite article is only left out in connection with possessive pronouns when the noun is a specific family member and singular. If the noun is plural it always requires an article. The bible quote from Baruch 1:16 ("And to our kings, and to our princes, and to our priests, and to our prophets, and to our fathers") has "per i nostri padri", for example.
 * To illustrate:
 * "per il nostro professore" (for our teacher): singular, not a family member >> use the article
 * "per i nostri professori" (for our teachers): plural, not a family member >> use the article
 * "per nostro padre" (for our father): singular, family member >> omit the article (unless your talking about father outside the family context, e.g. "per il nostro padre spirituale")
 * "per i nostri padri" (for our fathers): plural, family member >> use the article
 * ---Sluzzelin talk  14:20, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Check the English meaning. If the fathers are used in the meaning of a parent, the translation will be different from fathers and forefathers or priests.  Depending on context the German might also be "unseren Vätern gewidmet".--76.97.245.5 (talk) 14:34, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

In Spanish: "Para nuestros padres". -- PS T  13:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedians from Washington D.C.
Dear Wikipedians from Washington D.C.

Recently, I have been looking for materials about Neo (a constructed language) on the Internet, but have been able to find very little material. However, I found out that the Library of Congress has the original of Arturo Alfandari's The Rapid Method of Neo (the Library of Congress - Neo). Since I am not in Washington (in fact, I am from Europe), I would ask you one favor - if somebody could have the book photocopied and/or scanned and put online. However, I am aware of the ownership problems - the book was published in 1961 and is still under copyright. But this is only de iure, since Arturo Alfandari is deceased and nobody is actually making any profit out of it. De facto, this language and its creator are more or less forgotten (and I think he would be happy that at least somebody is showing any interest in his creation), is not commercialized so there would be no intelectual property theft and profit loss for anybody, and therefore no infringement of either Wikipedia's copyright policy or of the overall stance towards this issue. So, if somebody could help me, I would be very grateful.

Once again, thank you

Note: I know this request is a bit unusual but no spam or rudeness of any kind are intended. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ArkinAardvark (talk • contribs) 18:22, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There are some external links which may be of use to you at our article Neo (constructed language). DuncanHill (talk) 18:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Reproducing material that is still de jure under copyright certainly is against Wikipedia's policies, regardless of whether it "ought to be" or not. If someone does do this for you it will have to be outside Wikipedia. -Elmer Clark (talk) 01:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps there are other libraries that have a copy of the book, such as university libraries (WorldCat may be helpful here), and which would be willing to send it to your local library on an interlibrary loan? Then you could whatever copying your conscience and the local laws and library policies allow. --Anonymous, 04:26 UTC, January 26, 2009.