Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 June 30

= June 30 =

Korean
What's the romanization(s) of the korean syllable 덩? --151.51.32.125 (talk) 14:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Depending on which Korean romanization system you use, tŏng, teng, or deong. +Angr

vocabulary,english
want to improve my english language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.72.192.38 (talk) 15:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Read books and newspapers in English, watch films and TV in English, speak to English-speaking people. --Richardrj talkemail 15:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Take an English language class/course. --  JackofOz (talk) 19:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You should also see the Simple EnglishEncyclopedia

How hard could it be to say my name?
My name is Arnon. How hard is it to pronounce that in english (for a native speaker)? aghnon (talk) 15:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That depends on how it's supposed to be pronounced. I would say it as or, both of which I can pronounce easily. Algebraist 16:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In hebrew it is pronounced completely phonetically . In english I heard it pronounced . Clearly I'm not expecting people to pronounce my name right in english, is easier to pronounce? aghnon (talk) 16:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, most English speakers have a very difficult time with, which exists in English only in a few dialects in Northern England. Rhotic speakers (e.g. most North Americans, Irish people, and Scots) will say , , or , while non-rhotic speakers (e.g. most English people, Welsh people, and English speakers from the Southern Hemisphere) will say it the way Algebraist does. +Angr 16:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec) No, the final vowel should make no difference. It is probably just people not knowing the correct pronunciation rather than not being able to pronounce it. The difficulty will be with the 'r'. We don't have an in English, "ar" is usually pronounced just as a long 'a'. What you say it should be, without the 'r', (I can't get the IPA to display properly...) should be pronounceable easily enough, but some English speakers may have difficulty getting the guttural R (at least, that's what Wikipedia tells me it is, my knowledge of IPA in limited!) in there. --Tango (talk) 16:45, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't really see the differences between the R's:) aghnon (talk) 17:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you typed [[File:Xsampa-R2.png]], the symbol for the voiced uvular fricative, which is the most common way "r" is pronounced in Israeli Hebrew. I used [[File:Xsampa-rslash2.png]], the symbol for the alveolar approximant, which is the most common way "r" is pronounced in English. If you can't see the difference between and, maybe you don't have an IPA-friendly font installed. +Angr 17:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I am aware, the actual Hebrew pronunciation is, so the vowels do not really match anything in English either. — Emil J. 18:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I wrote because that's what's written about Resh. aghnon (talk) 19:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There's also a systematic difference between the treatment of 'o' in foreign names and words by (most) Americans and (most) British people: unless the orthographic shape of the name suggests a 'long o' (eg the o is final, or followed by a single consonant and final vowel), most British people will read the 'o' as they would in words like 'not' and 'lost', whereas Americans will often pronounce it as they do 'note' or 'home'. For example Carl Sagan's 'cosmos' ("cozemoce" or ) came over oddly here, where we say  ("cozzmoss"). So in your case, most non-rhotic English people would say  not.

Comma usage
Is this correct comma usage?

Use of this assay with a concentration of inhibitor in excess of 10 μM, yields unacceptable background levels and therefore restricts the use of compound concentrations to a maximum of 10 μM.

There's a pause when I speak it aloud but I'm not sure whether that rule has exceptions. Seans Potato Business 19:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Personally, I see no need for the comma there. By the way, The Elements of Style is a great read. Bus stop (talk) 19:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Me neither. If anywhere, I'd put a comma after "levels".  But then, I'd start the second part "which therefore restricts" (before which a comma is mandatory anyway) or "and it therefore restricts" or "and therefore it restricts".  If you believe that a comma is required every time there's a pause when speaking, I don't think it's as cut and dried as that.  Sometimes we pause for effect to let something we've just stressed sink in, but in most cases there'd be no punctuation matching that pause.  --  JackofOz (talk) 19:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I see. How about:

Surprisingly, we show by western blotting, that our compound increases MGM2 ubiquitination...

When I verbalise it, there are pauses in those locations, but removal of "we show by western blotting" would corrupt the sentence. Should I get rid of the second comma or add another between "show" and "by"? Seans Potato Business 19:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, either of those solutions. It's safe to have no commas in a short phrase like that, but if you have any, you must have 2 because "by western blotting" is parenthetical.  --  JackofOz (talk) 19:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It is incorrect to separate the subject and verb. The subject is "Use of this assay with a concentration of inhibitor in excess of 10 μM." It contains many modifiers in the form of prepositional phrases.151.213.160.3 (talk) 21:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I once read an interesting analysis of Walter Scott punctuation. It said that in his time, commas were more used for indicating pauses than for regulating units of meaning.Rhinoracer (talk) 10:13, 1 July 2009 (UTC)