Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 June 8

= June 8 =

Images of runic Rúnatal
I'm trying to find an original-text version of the Rúnatal. There are lots of translations into anglicised text, linked from the Wikipedia pages and available on Google. Needed for an art project.

What I'm after is how the Rúnatal would have originally been written - perhaps scanned pages or photographs of existing archived work? Not sure how to track it down. Thanks in advance! 124.168.225.105 (talk) 07:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't been able to find an online image specifically showing the Rúnatal portion of the Codex Regius; but if you want to see the look of the hand in which it was written, a portion of the Atlamál text is shown in our article, and this image shows the beginning of Hávamál. The phrasing of the heading above, however, leads me to think that you suppose there to be a text of the poem in the runic alphabet. That isn't the case; the Codex Regius is our only source for Rúnatal, and that manuscript is written in the Latin alphabet. Deor (talk) 14:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I've now found an image online, but I can't link to it directly. Go to this page and click on the "Skoða" link for "GKS 2365 4to" (near the bottom of the page). On the page that gets you to, click on 3 at the top of the right-hand box; then click on the link for 006 verso. Rúnatal begins on line 27 of that page—where the large initial letter is—and ends after the first two words in line 8 of the next page (007 recto). Deor (talk) 15:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Meshuy
In reading a book by Elizabeth Gaskett, I came across the French word 'meshuy'. Can anyone help me as to its meaning? The text can be found here: http://shuku.mofcom.gov.cn/book/htmfile/40/s4671_4.htm

Thanks for your help in advance. Wikiwikijimbob (talk) 10:09, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If this is reliable, it's an old French word for "today". +Angr 10:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * And there's a longer explanation of it here, in Le Glossaire acadien, under the headword dumeshui. --Heron (talk) 08:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * In this particular case, I would say "from now on". Reference here (Middle French Dictionary). — AldoSyrt (talk) 16:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

ISO amusing phrase to be printed on apron for LGBT BBQ
My LGBT student association will be doing a BBQ in a couple of weeks for our last activity of the year. I'm going to get an apron printed with our logo on it.

I was wondering if anyone could suggest an amusing sentence/phrase to be printed above/around the logo. I don't mind if it's offensive to LGBTs (although that's not a prerequisite!) since I'll be wearing it, so it will just be ironic or whatever. Preference goes to something cooking-related. Maybe something to do with sausage or buns..? "Would you like a sausage between your buns?" I don't know... something like that.. or different. :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.212.39.7 (talk) 13:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not a comic, but it seems there would be many options using the word "weiner". If you are a male, something like "Hot weiners served here", or "Ask me about my weiner".  If you are a female, maybe something like "Weiner-free zone".  --Zerozal (talk) 15:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You may want to spell it "wiener", though. Deor (talk) 15:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Will there be watermelon served at the barbecue? If so, perhaps something along the lines of "Nice melons" for the ladies, in addition to something along the lines of "If you got the wienies, I got the buns" for the gentlemen. This may mean printing up two different styles of apron, though. +Angr 16:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OMGWTFLGBTBBQ —Bkell (talk) 00:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I always liked this sign outside a saloon: "Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear." DOR (HK) (talk) 09:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

How about an image of Mae West, with the caption "All that meat and no potatoes". -- JackofOz (talk) 22:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * For men I would suggest the slogan "Put meat here". For the ladies, "Eating out is fun" or, if ribs are being served, "Don't be afraid to use your fingers". L ANTZY T ALK 04:59, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Anti-rhyme
Is there a (better) term/article for this tactic used in such songs as "Mr. Brightside" by The Killers?


 * Now they're going to bed
 * And my stomach is sick
 * And it's all in my head
 * But she's touching his chest now

The anti-rhyme is that the song tricks the listener into thinking the last line will be "But she's touching his dick", but instead completely changes to a word ("chest") that doesn't rhyme with "sick" at all.--Remurmur (talk) 17:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That is something that the late, great British comedian Frankie Howerd was expert in. I wasn't aware of there being a specific name for it, although there should be. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 17:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * One of the most famous uses is Shaving Cream (song)... AnonMoos (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See also Miss Susie, in which the "rude" words are actually uttered, but with their meaning altered by the change in context. Deor (talk) 18:24, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also Sweet Violets. The Wednesday Island (talk) 18:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, no answer here but another example: the assuming song Aaadddaaammm (talk) 19:06, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And yet another: Polka Dot Undies. —Tamfang (talk) 23:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Me again, had a brain wave: this is irony. You expect something but get something else. Having a look at those links it's also described as "novelty song which uses innuendo". Aaadddaaammm (talk) 19:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And (in the Sweet Violets article) as a "censored rhyme" lyric. Deor (talk) 19:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think irony is an accurate descriptor. (Verbal) irony is when the meaning of something is contradictory to how it is said.--Remurmur (talk) 02:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * In music theory this kind of "tricked you" thing is called a deceptive cadence (the Cadence (music) briefly mentions it). A lot of music is like rhyming poetry/lyrics in that it sets up an expectation of where a progression will end. When a musical progression creates an expected final cadence ("rhyme") but instead goes elsewhere there can be a sense of being "tricked". I don't know if the term "deceptive" is used for poetry/lyrics though. And there is the common "avoided lewdness" that doesn't correspond to musical deceptive cadences. The "tricked" feeling is similar though. Pfly (talk) 07:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd just like to mention that I do not think this was intentional in the OP's example, "Mr. Brightside". Offhand, I can't think of a single The Killers song that contains innuendo. decltype (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * O_o You... don't think this is intentional in Mr Brightside? Have I understood you correctly? That seems unlikely. 80.41.126.158 (talk) 16:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes you have. I am certainly no expert on song structure, but the line
 * "But she's touching his chest, now"
 * rhymes with the next line:
 * "He takes off her dress, now"
 * making the complete rhyme scheme for that verse something like "abaccd", and the second line may not have been intended to rhyme with anything. decltype (talk) 23:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * But the previous verse, which it mirrors, goes:
 * "Now I'm falling asleep
 * And she's calling a cab
 * While he's having a smoke
 * And she's taking a drag.
 * With 'drag' almost-rhyming with cab, and certainly displaying assonance. The following verse, which we are discussing, follows the same rhythm and 'tune', musically mirroring this earlier verse which sets us up for a rhyme on the 4th line with the 2nd. On top of this, there is a slight pause/shift on the fourth line into a different tune. "But she's touching his/chest now" with the last two words seeming like a separate line, breaking the mirror with the previous verse. This is a common trick in those children's rhymes mentioned earlier.
 * Given that the whole song is about the singer's imagination running wild with horrified imaginings of what is going on, while trying to stop himself and reason the worries away, I'd say the shying away from that image fits perfectly. 80.41.126.158 (talk) 12:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)