Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 May 23

= May 23 =

German sentence
I'm trying to translate the sentence "de alles an dich hat gewandt", but I don't know any German, so all I've got is "the all on you have skillful", which doesn't make sense in context. It's part of a poem on a gravestone for a child. 71.220.104.207 (talk) 01:30, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This document might be of interest. It contains the text of headstones from a "Pfluger Cemetery" in Pflugerville, Texas. Apparently, an Eagle Scout chose to transcribe the headstones for his service project. Anyway, the sentence "Der alles an dich hat gewandt" appears in there (on a child's grave, no less), but it only makes sense if you know the rest of the poem. It (roughly) translates as "Who has [adroitly/skillfully] done everything for you", and refers to Jesus. Xenon54 (talk) 01:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you! 71.220.104.207 (talk) 02:06, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Slight disagreement: gewandt here is the past of gewendet (an) => addressed to. Probably here meaning something like "lavished all his attention on you".  Skillful would be use as an adjective rather than a verb and would require a "to be" (ist) rather than a "have" (hat). 71.236.24.129 (talk) 12:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with 71.236. As a native speaker I would interprete the phrase as "who has provided all (good things in life) for you".  It is an archaic use of a verb which is old-fashioned or, at least, a bit formal in modern usage (umwenden = to turn around, sich an jemand wenden = to address some person).  Some Googling indicates that it it may still be used in Protestant (Lutheran) prayers in the sense given in the original verses.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 14:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

New England Portuguese
I've heard (secondhand, unfortunately) of some interesting dialectal forms used in the Portuguese community in southeastern New England - for example, something that sounds like "portugui" instead of "português", and something that sounds like "chouris" instead of "chouriço". Does anybody here know anything about the peculiarities of New England Portuguese? (I've heard that many of the Portuguese immigrants here came from the Azores and Medeira, if that helps.) --Lazar Taxon (talk) 01:37, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * For information about the people, you can see Portuguese American, Luso American, The Portuguese in New England - Page 1, and The Portuguese in New England - Page 2. --Wavelength (talk) 02:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You can download a dissertation in PDF format from PORTINGLES, THE LANGUAGE OF PORTUGUESE-SPEAKING PEOPLE IN SELECTED ENGLISH-SPEAKING COMMUNITIES (MASSACHUSETTS). -- Wavelength (talk) 05:27, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See also Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 January 21 (specifically, the last comment in that section) and Porglish. -- Wavelength (talk) 07:26, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In Mystic Pizza, one of the characters refers to herself as a "Portuguee girl", which I take to be a back-formed singular from "Portuguese" re-interpreted as a plural "Portuguees". That could be the origin of the "portugui" form you've heard. +Angr 08:37, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The town I grew up in (RI) had a sizable Portuguese population. I heard "Portagee" a lot, but it was considered rather rude. We pronounced the sausage like "shihDEECE." Catrionak (talk) 19:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Translation of Ching Hai?
I am copying the below question from Talk:Ching Hai. Lady of  Shalott  14:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC) I changed the translation of Ching Hai from "pure ocean" to "green/blue sea" on the basis that Ching Hai is the Wade-Giles spelling of the Hanyu Pinyin Qīnghǎi which apparently does translate to green/blue sea. My edit was reverted with an unhelpful remark "the ching hai is 清 not 青. Another ignorant edit without fact checking". Despite the pinyin spelling in Ching Hai and Qinghai being identical. Can a native Mandarin speaker provide some impartial clarity? 59.167.40.111 (talk) 05:10, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not a native mandarin speaker, but I do speak Japanese, and since the Japanese use the same ideographs that the Chinese do, I believe I can answer your question. While the pinyin spelling is the same, those are two different characters with two different meanings. 青 means pure, pristine, and 清 means green/blue. So the revert was correct, even if the rationale was less than corteous. TomorrowTime (talk) 14:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You have it backward. (Your point is correct, but you got the two characters swapped in your explanation.) --173.49.10.162 (talk) 15:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Blush TomorrowTime (talk) 16:41, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Agree with the above. 青 is blue-green, 清 means clear/pure. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * 青 can, in some contexts also mean red or black, according to my Chinese/Chinese dictionary. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 07:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Generic name for Aspirin-type medication
I'm currently working on a game project where one of the many things the player can do is to drink alcohol (which has certain beneficial effects but also some side effects). To counteract the side effects, the player has to get and use Aspirin pills; however, I don't want to use the name "Aspirin" in the game as that's a trademarked name. So...what is the generic name for Aspirin-type pills in their specific role as anti-hangover medication? My native German uses what literally translates to "headache pills", but I don't think that expression exists in English...would analgesic be the correct word? I'm not looking for a word that generically means "painkiller", but for a more specific word meaning something against hangovers. Thanks a lot, Ferkelparade &pi; 16:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


 * plink plink fizz = Alka Seltzer (it's the sound they make as they dissolve in water) --TammyMoet (talk) 16:35, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unlike in Germany, aspirin is not a trademark in most of the English-speaking world. 87.113.4.137 (talk) 17:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Aspirin (USAN), also known as acetylsalicylic acid (, abbreviated ASA), is a salicylate drug, often used as an analgesic to relieve minor aches and pains, as an antipyretic to reduce fever, and as an anti-inflammatory medication.
 * United States Adopted Names are unique nonproprietary names assigned to pharmaceuticals marketed in the United States. Each name is assigned by the USAN Council, which is co-sponsored by the American Medical Association (AMA), the United States Pharmacopeial Convention (USP), and the American Pharmacists Association (APhA). -- Wavelength (talk) 17:42, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

In many countries (including the US and UK) Aspirin is not trademarked, but that's irrelevant if it is trademarked where you are. I would have said the generic term in English for what Aspirin is is "analgesic" or "painkiller", but you've ruled those out. If you want a generic term for a hangover remedy, I'd just go with "hangover remedy". That could include things that are not medicines, so another choice would be "hangover medicine" or "medicine for a hangover". --Anonymous, 17:48 UTC, May 23, 2009.

You could abandon Aspirin altogether and use other common hangover drugs like paracetemol, ibruprofen or codeine. Nanonic (talk) 23:23, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

There's an old superstition that the cure for rabies(?) is "the hair of the dog that bit you"; by the magic of humorous metaphor, "hair of the dog" is a drink taken to ameliorate (or at least postpone) a hangover. You could translate that phrase, or some analogous concept in German, to Latin. Saeta canis. —Tamfang (talk) 01:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * "Hair of the dog" is, necessarily, an alcoholic drink. So it's no synonym for aspirin. Further, "hangover remedy" in the context of alcohol may suggest any alcohol or perhaps some specific, ghastly alcohol like Fernet, so that's out too. Paracetamol is not aspirin but (for better or worse) it's used in much the same way and the name is widely known. Is it a registered trademark in your part of the world? -- Hoary (talk) 03:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * There are no effective real-life hangover remedies; why not just make up a name for this fictitious thing you want to include in your game?. "Hang-over Ease" or "Sober Solution" or "Drunkard's Friend" or something. - Nunh-huh 03:19, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Katzenjammer Pills? Deor (talk) 03:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Where I come from -- and that must be case in Germany too -- Sauerkraut juice is considered the best cure for hangover. See Sauerkraut. Not so sure about English culture (though http://www.google.com/search?q=sauerkraut+hangover gives decent 20,000 hits). No such user (talk) 11:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Central and East European cuisines / folk medicine have a wealth of traditional cures for hangover, mostly some sour non-alcoholic beverages. Apart from sauerkraut juice, these include Polish-style pickled cucumber juice, kvass, kefir and buttermilk. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 07:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all the suggestions. I particularly like the sauerkraut and pickles ideas, I'll see if I can work that in. -- Ferkelparade &pi; 13:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"An Eurostar train"; words starting with a vowel but a consonant sound
Eurostar is an operator of high-speed railway services, branded under the same "Eurostar" name. They also own a number of trains, an Eurostar train being a singular example one of these. Or should this be "a Eurostar train"? Note that this situation does not occur particularly frequently as Anglo/French day-to-day usage prefers "to take the Eurostar" (in the same way that it is invariably the Concorde). —Sladen (talk) 16:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


 * A Eurostar sounds best, because of the y sound. --TammyMoet (talk) 16:33, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "Invariably the Concorde"? I've never seen it used with a definite article in English. 87.113.4.137 (talk) 17:33, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've always seen it called simply Concorde, neither a Concorde nor the Concorde. Anyway, the use of an seems - from all the comments of similar discussion on previous topic on this desk - to be purely for ease of speech. Thus, if it sounds like it needs one, add one. If it doesn't (as in this case), don't. "A Eurostar" would be appropriate. Vimescarrot (talk) 17:42, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In common usage in the United Kingdom, the type is known as "Concorde" rather than "the Concorde" or "a Concorde". See paragraph 4 of the article Concorde. -- Wavelength (talk) 20:58, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely it's "a Eurostar", just as it's "a Euro", "a European", and even "a Yorkist". Otherwise it would tend to be interpreted as "a Neurostar", which sounds more like a doctor bravely trepanning a sick Australian child with a handyman's drill.  Ka renjc 22:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Napples and Nuncles were both renamed due to this type of thing, apparently...though I can't remember where I heard that. Vimescarrot (talk) 11:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See Rebracketing. -- Wavelength (talk) 21:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Neither apple nor uncle originally began with /n/, but adder did, iirc. —Tamfang (talk) 01:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * How topical! Would this guy qualify?  --  JackofOz (talk) 00:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * We always called it "the Concorde", in Canada. I didn't even know there was more than one, until one of them crashed. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

It's "a Eurostar train" if you are referring to a particular train, and "the Eurostar" if you are referring to the service in generlaly, because regardless of which particular train you catch, you are taking the service collectively known as "the Eurostar", just as you could take "the Piccadilly Line" or "a Piccadilly Line train", "the Metro" or "a Metro train/service".

And it's "a" Eurostar train not "an" Eurostar train because the word starts like a /j/ ("y-") sound, a consonant sound. As has been pointed out above, you only use "an" if you need it for the speech not to sound weird. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)