Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 May 24

= May 24 =

Indefinite Articles In Example
Are there any rules for or against the use an indefinite article when used in the context I shall describe? I have noticed the usage, especially when people make comparisons using examples. As an example of this, if I want to compare my child to various others, I might say "compare Peter to a Tom, a Dick, or a Harry". The intention seems to be that whilst a specific example is given, we want to compare to all kids who are like Tom, Dick or Harry, and not specifically to them alone. My problem here is that the indefinite article by nature lacks specificity, and yet we are being specific when we provide the example names. The wikipedia article on indefinite articles also implies that it should be used where new articles are introduced.--41.15.135.171 (talk) 04:31, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know about rules, but this device tends to be used in relation to well-known names. For example, "While John Garfield didn't have the presence of an Orson Welles or the breadth and depth of a Gregory Peck, he was neverthless a highly regarded actor and a huge box office drawcard in his day".  That sentence could just as well have said "While John Garfield didn't have the presence of Orson Welles or the breadth and depth of Gregory Peck, ...".  But you're right, the first version is comparing Garfield not just with Welles and Peck, but with any actors who had the characteristics of Welles and Peck, and using their names as archetypal examples.  A certain small child would not generally be considered an archetypal example of anything much, but I'm sure contexts could be found where this would apply.  --  JackofOz (talk) 06:09, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * An added twist is that the phrase "Tom, Dick or Harry" carries the subtext of "yer average bloke", so by using these names you're playing on this subconscious association. Use of the indefinite article emphasises this association - ie it's not anybody you know called Tom, Dick or Harry: it could be anybody called Tom, Dick or Harry. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

To me, a Tom, a Dick, or a Harry sounds very forced; I'd say a Tom, Dick, or Harry. However, this doesn't really impact your question. It's "a", because it means any (indefinite) person named Tom, Dick or Harry (or, by implication, anything else). We're not being specific when we give the names, because of our understanding (and our expectation of the understanding in the listener) that there are Toms, Dicks and Harries (however spelled) by the thousand. &para; Come to think of it, I tend to use it with an indefinite quantifier: "If my daughter stays out all night she's likely to get herself knocked up by some Tom, Dick or Harry"; "When I think of the buffoon who's the Prime Minister of [nation] I suppose that any Tom, Dick or Harry can get elected and pretend to run a country." &para; Hmm, this is interesting. Can we say Every Tom, Dick or Harry" or (of course with a different meaning) are we limited to "Every Tom, Dick and Harry"? We can use no: "No Tom, Dick or Harry is going to [...]" And even with that, I think. -- Hoary (talk) 11:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The whole point of the phrase "Tom, Dick or Harry" is that they are very common names, so using them isn't being specific. "A Tom" could be any person called "Tom", of which there are many (myself included!). --Tango (talk) 23:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * That phrase rarely if ever means that there's necessarily a person actually called Tom, Dick or Harry in the group of people being talked about. But there might be for all the speaker knows.  And it includes females.  It simply means anyone in general.  --  JackofOz (talk) 20:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not unknown to separate the parts of such a cliché for jocular emphasis: "I'm not going to open this door for any Tom, neither for any Dick nor any Harry." I've said similar things, and I imagine both Bertie Wooster and Archie Goodwin have done so. —Tamfang (talk) 23:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)