Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 May 25

= May 25 =

French translation needed
Does this plaque say something to the effect that Cafe Procope (Le Procope) was the world's first cafe or the world's oldest continually functioning cafe? --Doug Coldwell talk 11:36, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * translation available here:http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cafe_Procope_plaque.jpg#Summary Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 12:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. --Doug Coldwell talk 12:35, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Old/Middle English meaning of Chel
What does the "chel" in "Chelsea" mean?

I've heard lots of name definitions for "Chelsea", like "sea port", "chalk landing place", and "limestone (cliffs) by the sea". I understand the port/ocean connection ("sea"), but "chel" no longer holds any meaning in English. Was it a word in Old or Middle English? What did it mean? It has the same initial sound as "chalk", which would tie into the "chalk landing place" name origin. But I can't find "chel" in any Middle or Old English dictionaries...

I did find some possibilities, but I don't know if any fit.

In Old English
 * "Cele"/"Ceole"/"Céo"/"Céole" can mean "the beak/keel of a ship"
 * "Ceolas" or "Ciele" can mean means "cold winds" or "cold"/"chill"

In Middle English
 * "Chelle"/"Chele" can mean "the bow of a ship"
 * "Chele" can mean "cold"/"chill"
 * "Chele" can mean "a bowl", "incense vessel" or "drinking cup"

Which is it? Or is it something else?

71.174.26.231 (talk) 14:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)Olivia


 * See paragraph 2 at http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Chelsea,_England. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See the first paragraph of Chelsea, London. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:28, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Adrian Room, in Placenames of the World: Origins and Meanings, agrees with the etymology given in the WP article cited by Wavelength above. To clarify, I meant that he agrees with the derivation from cealc and hyð, not with Norden's suggestion. Deor (talk) 15:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Apparently, the supposed element sea involves false etymology. -- Wavelength (talk) 16:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * and often represents either OE 'ea' (stream) or 'ey' from Norse word meaning 'island' --ColinFine (talk) 17:20, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Now if I could only understand why Elvis Costello didn't want to go to Chelsea... -- AnonMoos (talk) 17:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it's because he supports Liverpool :) Grutness...wha?  01:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * but dee doo, doh, don't dee, doh? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:01, 27 May 2009 (UTC)