Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 April 18

= April 18 =

agō
Does Spanish have any terms derived from the Latin agō? 12.105.164.147 (talk) 03:47, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Right now, I can think of agente and agitación, but there are probably quite a few more -- Ferkelparade &pi; 04:17, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * See http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/Spanish/agir.html. -- Wavelength (talk) 05:46, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * None of the dictionaries I checked have agir- are you sure that's a verb in Spanish? Nadando (talk) 05:55, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I am not, but it seems to be treated as a Spanish verb by http://conjugador.reverso.net/conjugacion-espanol-verbo-agir.html. (I found "agir" in a Portuguese dictionary, "agir" in a French dictionary, and "agire" in an Italian dictionary, but, of course, that does not prove that "agir" be a word in Spanish.) -- Wavelength (talk) 18:03, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Also acción and reacción. I don't speak Spanish, but I suspect there are many more. --Магьосник (talk) 05:59, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

And, the etymologies of all acto, actor, actriz, actuar, actuación, activo, actividad, activar, activación, agenda, and agencia can be traced back to Latin agō. Being a Romance language, Spanish quite naturally has lots of words derived from one of the most productive Latin roots. --Магьосник (talk) 06:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

As per various dictionaries: To "act" in Latin is agere, in French is agir and in Spanish is actuar. To "agitate" in Latin is agitare, in French is agiter and in Spanish is agitar. I'm not seeing anything in Spanish that looks like agir. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:58, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Romanian names
Looking at the Romanian Wikipedia, I found that a lot of Romanian first names seem to have two different standards. For example, for the English Peter you have Petru (Petru Bălan) and Petre (Petre Roman). For Michael you have Mihail (Mihail Sadoveanu) and Mihai (Mihai Antonescu). Other examples are: Paul (Paul Călinescu) and Pavel (Pavel Badea), Veniamin-Beniamin (Beniamin Fărăgău/Iosif Veniamin Blaga), Dumitru-Dimitrie (Dimitrie Anghel/ Dumitru Răducanu), Chiril-Ciril, Cristofor-Hristofor, Blasiu-Vlasie, Ambrozie-Ambroziu, Vichentie-Vincenţiu, Porfirie-Porfiriu, Patriciu-Patrichie, Onufrie-Onofrei, Metodiu-Metodie, Matei-Matia, Manuel-Manuil, Lucian-Luchian (Ioan Luchian Mihalea/Lucian Predescu), Laurenţiu-Lavrenţie, Ignaţiu-Ignatie, Gabriel-Gavriil (Gavriil Musicescu/Gabriel Marinescu), Gervasie-Ghervasie, Eutimiu-Eftimie, Procopiu-Procopie, Eleuteriu-Elefterie, Eusebiu-Eusebie (Eusebie Mandicevschi/Eusebiu Camilar). It's like sometimes it ends with -u, sometimes in -e, sometimes has a c/g, sometimes a ch/gh, b or v, -uel or -uil. Is there an explanation for this phenomenon? --151.51.15.200 (talk) 16:37, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know for certain, but a lot of those look like one form is of Romance origin and the other Slavic. Mihail, Pavel, Petre, Chiril, Gavriil, Hristofor, Dimitrie (and pretty much any of those ending in -ie) all look Slavic, while their counterparts strike me as Romance. 128.135.222.164 (talk) 18:37, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Some of the ones ending in -ie you would only find as names of monks nowadays. Rimush (talk) 19:03, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I second the suggestion of Romance vs Slavonic versions. Romanian took part of its orthography from Italian, specifically the groups 'ci', 'gi', 'chi', 'ghi' are as in Italian; so, for example 'Chiril' would be pronounced with /k/ as in Slavonic names, whereas 'Ciril' would be pronounced with /tʃ/ like the Italian 'Cirillo'. --ColinFine (talk) 20:24, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Head scratching
I am wondering why the action (or the depiction) of someone scratching his head is used in order to represent puzzlement or confusion. What is the correlation? How did this come about? Thanks. (64.252.65.146 (talk) 18:29, 18 April 2010 (UTC))


 * It came about because people often actually do scratch their head when they're puzzled. I'm not sure if we know precisely why, but the article Body language alludes both to this and to several other such unconscious gestures. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 23:20, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. That's funny ... I did not know that people actually do this!  I thought that it was just a caricature / cartoon / humor device!  So, I guess my question is transformed – as you allude to – into why do people do this?  Thanks for the info.  I really did not know that.   (64.252.65.146 (talk) 23:54, 18 April 2010 (UTC))


 * I think anything can take on the role of a communicative device. Turning the palms upward can mean "I don't know." It is that empty-handed feeling that corresponds to the not knowing of something. If one person does it, and another person appreciates its value in communication and imitates it, the gesture is reinforced within a group of people. I think the scratching of the head is accompanied by a facial expression that also conveys an inability to comprehend something. Of course this is original research, so I really shouldn't be pontificating. Bus stop (talk) 00:05, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The "turning of the palms upward" thing is not universal, as is the face that often accompanies the "I don't know" gesture. 219.102.220.42 (talk) 03:38, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Hmmmmmmm ... maybe my question was poorly worded.  I know why people do this (i.e., to communicate that they are puzzled).  But, I am trying to figure out how the physical action of head scratching equates to puzzlement.  I guess I just don't see any correlation or relationship.  Any ideas?  Thanks.   (64.252.65.146 (talk) 01:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC))


 * I think there is a type of facial expression that accompanies the head scratching that helps to make it clear that one is unable to recall a fact, or figure something out. It would be pure speculation on my part (as if I haven't been purely speculating all along) but the scratching on the head is the treating of the head as if it were a more mundane object. A coconut or a cantaloupe for instance might be picked at or probed to determine something about it. If one is puzzled one might choose a gesture to indicate probing the source of the shortcoming one is experiencing at that moment — the inability to figure something out via thinking, which could also equate with puzzlement. Bus stop (talk) 02:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is my theory: puzzlement --> mental exertion --> confident deep breathing OR
 * puzzlement --> mental exertion --> loss of moisture --> itchy head --> head scratching AND/OR
 * puzzlement --> mental exertion --> loss of moisture --> itchy throat --> throat clearing.
 * If you are puzzled by something, you might want to think optimistically and inhale deeply. -- Wavelength (talk) 02:52, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the input ... much appreciated! Thank you! (64.252.65.146 (talk) 01:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC))

Polish names
Is it ok in formal writing to refer to the recently deceased Polish PM and his spouse as "Lech and Maria Kaczyński", or is it necessary to say "Lech Kaczyński and Maria Kaczyńska"? Thanks. 66.127.54.238 (talk) 23:57, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If you want to use the proper Polish form, it would be Lech and Maria Kaczyńscy (using the plural form of their surname). 128.135.222.164 (talk) 01:03, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I never saw that form before.  66.127.54.238 (talk) 04:08, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that the plural form is correct in Polish. Please note that Lech Kaczyński was a president, not a prime minister. It is his brother, Jarosław Kaczyński, still alive, who used to be a prime minister. — Kpalion(talk) 08:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)