Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 April 5

= April 5 =

He is beside himself.
Why does the phrase "he is beside himself" mean that he is sad or grief-stricken or overwhelmed? How does the (presumably, physical) position of being "beside yourself" lend itself to this meaning or connotation? Thanks. (64.252.65.146 (talk) 16:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC))
 * My Webster's doesn't give the origin, but it does expand the definition to, "In a state of extreme excitement." Whether grief qualifies for that is iffy, but basically it's used to mean that one is in extreme emotional state - maybe separate from (or "beside") one's normal behavior? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:10, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * This site says that "beside" was also used to mean "outside", and "beside oneself" was another way of saying "out of one's wits", i.e. not in control emotionally. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:12, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a similar expression in Polish, used when someone is really very angry, which literally translates as "to walk out of oneself". — Kpalion(talk) 18:59, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I suspect it may have something to do with the psychological phenomenon of appearing to be observing oneself from a short distance away, and thus "beside oneself". This can happen during periods of great stress.  It happened to me once; there were two people in my office, and they were both me - the spookiest thing I've ever experienced.  See also out-of-body experience.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   20:39, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "I'm feeling a little schizophrenic today." - "Hey, that makes four of us!" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:56, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Just "beside himself" tends IME to mean "… with anger" (pace the third link I give below), however the phrase "beside himself with grief" is common with "beside herself with joy" maybe less so. See http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Conan_the_Barbarian_%28film%29#Thulsa_Doom, http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=7053 and http://www.infosquares.com/eslblog/blog_06172008.html to name but three. Tonywalton Talk 12:57, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, that third link that you cite states: The phrase is said to date back to the times of Ancient Greece, when it was believed that during very emotional times, the soul leaves the body and is therefore "beside" it. Thank you.   (64.252.65.146 (talk) 15:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC))


 * If you're beside yourself, does that lead to talking to yourself ? StuRat (talk) 14:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * could it mean your personality is split, like schitzofrenia?--79.76.239.84 (talk) 03:24, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It's a common misconception that split personality, or Dissociative identity disorder, is a necessary feature of schizophrenia. It's not.  --  202.142.129.66 (talk) 06:56, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * In Schizophrenia the schiz does mean "split" and the phrenia does mean "mind" but it' mind split from reality rather than mind split into pieces (according to memory, and without checking references) --Polysylabic Pseudonym (talk) 07:53, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I recall from Psych 101 that schizophrenia means "splitting off from reality", which squares with what you're saying. True split-personality would presumably either be an extreme case of bipolarity (which is probably where the "beside yourself" situation manifests itself), or in the worst case, multiple-personality disorder. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:25, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks to all for the input above. It was very helpful. Thank you. (64.252.65.146 (talk) 12:51, 10 April 2010 (UTC))

Phonetically
Just got this into my head and it won't go away until I've resolved it. To write something as it is pronounced is to write it phonetically. To pronounce something as it is written is to pronounce it...? Thanks 92.11.43.155 (talk) 20:51, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Literally? As written?  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   21:01, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * In some cases, analogically would be appropriate—see Spelling pronunciation for our article on the topic. Deor (talk) 21:17, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It's the same word. 'Phonetic' refers to the correspondence between written and spoken symbols.  whether you are making sounds and writing down equivalent symbols or looking at written symbols and creating their corresponding sounds it's an act of phonetics.  The reason it's confusing is that we do the two things for different purposes.  we write the symbols for sounds as an act of transcription (converting oral production into written text), but when we do it the other way we are usually trying to get at the semantic meaning of the sounds (the old Sesame Street "Duh - awe - guh, Duh-awe-guh, Duhaweguh, Dog" thing).  -- Ludwigs 2  21:22, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * As spelled. --173.49.77.185 (talk) 03:01, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Intuitively? Doesn't quite fit exactly, but it's a useful word I forget all the time. --  the Great   Gavini  16:19, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Spelling pronunciation might be relevant.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 14:08, 7 April 2010 (UTC)