Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 December 7

= December 7 =

Spanish leismo
I have a question about the Spanish variation of leismo which is common in Spain, if anybody can answer. I understand that in leismo, le replaces lo referring to an animate direct object, like a person. My question is in the following joke, does the latter part of the bolded line use leismo, and can you explain?

Entra un borracho a una cafetería y dice, celebrando, con voz balbuceante: ¡Feliz año nuevo! A lo que una dama le contesta: ¿Feliz año nuevo? ¿En pleno abril? Y dice el borracho: ¿Ya estamos en abril? ¡Ay, mi mujer me va a matar, nunca había llegado tan tarde!

Thanks,  Grsz 11 03:16, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see how that joke is an example of leismo. The only "le" is in "le contesta", which means "answers him" or "replies to him". The drunk ("le") is simply the indirect object of the verb, while the unstated direct object is the remark the lady addresses to him. If it's a case of leismo, it's a borderline case. A translation of the joke, for those interested: A drunk walks into a tavern* and slurs merrily, "Happy new year!" To which a lady responds, "Happy new year? In the middle of April?" And the drunk says, "We're already into April? My wife is gonna kill me, this is the latest I've ever been out!" (* In this context, "cafetería" clearly signifies a liquor-dispensing place that is a few notches classier than a dive bar, hence the presence of a "lady". "Gastro-pub" or "wine bar" would probably capture the spirit of the original.) L ANTZY T ALK 03:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, no leísmo here. If we were to reflect upon the drunk's destiny, we would say that su mujer lo va a matar, without leísmo, or else, in the leistic way, su mujer le va a matar. Pallida  Mors  17:53, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Gaelic translation
Could someone please help me translate this Gaelic text into English. "do mh´ eudail bho chridhe na h-Alba a thug spiorard ùr, cùrsa ùr, neart ùr dhomh" Thanks in advance. P. S. Burton (talk)  10:21, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Until someone who actually knows Scottish Gaelic comes along, I'll do my best based on my knowledge of Irish. I think it means something like "To my benefit, it was the heart of Scotland that gave me a new spirit, a new course, new strength." Where's it from? —Angr (talk) 15:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help so far. It's from Public Relations: Concepts, Practice and Critique by Jacquie L'Etang.  P. S. Burton  (talk)  22:21, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Font on part of US dollar
What font is used for the part that says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"? 20.137.18.50 (talk) 13:24, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Seems to be a basic Sans Serif, maybe with some influence from Bank Gothic styles... AnonMoos (talk) 16:33, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Words from comics and cartoons.
Good day; For my column at a blog for comics fans, I am currently writing a series of articles about words and idioms that have entered the language through comics and cartoons. My first article is here: http://www.tcj.com/hoodedutilitarian/2010/12/keeping-up-with-the-goonses-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-13721 I am asking your help in finding idioms particularly from British and Commonwealth sources. I already have a few, such as 'a curates egg' or a 'colonel Blimp type'.

Expressions in languages other than English, for example the french 'il tire plus vite que son ombre' would be helpful, too.

Thanks very much for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhinoracer (talk • contribs) 13:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Heath Robinson (much like your American Rube Goldberg. DuncanHill (talk) 14:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Sadie Hawkins, poindexter, sad sack. 81.131.29.220 (talk) 15:38, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, I was aware of Heath Robinson.

I also knew Sadie Hawkins; I wasn't clear, sorry, but I didn't include animation-- which Poindexter belongs to (from the Felix the Cat TV cartoon). Sad sack was already in the language before the cartoon appeared.
 * For some U.S. stuff, see Tad Dorgan and Billy DeBeck. Deor (talk) 20:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Try Dagwood sandwich. -- Jayron  32  20:06, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Pointy-haired boss 67.162.90.113 (talk) 20:14, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Possibly, Jeep. -- LarryMac  | Talk  20:18, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Horrendous Space Kablooie? Adam Bishop (talk) 20:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Good grief! DOR (HK) (talk) 08:54, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thagomizer. Matt Deres (talk) 14:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC) p.s. - Oh, and that links to this bit about the Schmoo. Matt Deres (talk) 14:09, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * are we having fun yet? Gzuckier (talk) 14:31, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The term "canuck" for Canadian did not originate in a comic, but was popularized by the Johnny Canuck character. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:54, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you all very, very much! Rhinoracer (talk) 19:46, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * wikt:Category:Simpsons derivations, Duckburg and Mouseton derivations&mdash;msh210 &#x2120; 20:09, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Joe Palooka gave us the word "palooka" for a not-very-good, but thuggish, boxer.  Corvus cornix  talk  21:09, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * How about Embiggen and Cromulent?  Corvus cornix  talk  23:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Why not just one language?
I understand that humans radiated out from east Africa. In that case, why do we not just have one lanuage? Did language only arise after humans had spread across the globe? 92.15.11.224 (talk) 16:15, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Language changes as it is used (see our article on Language change). Different groups of people using language change it in different ways, so languages start to diverge. A good, accessible book about this is The Power of Babel by John McWhorter.
 * For a concrete example, take the Romance languages (French, Spanish, Italian, Romanian, Catalan, Occitan, Portuguese, etc.). A few thousand years ago there was just Latin. But the people speaking Latin in what is now France slowly started speaking it a little differently, as did those speaking it in what is now Spain, what is now Italy, etc. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 16:26, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I recommend you read our article on the origin of language.--Shantavira|feed me 16:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The nature of linguistic change is such that if a population speaking a single language splits into two geographically separated and somewhat disconnected populations, then just 500 to 1,000 years of divergent accumulated changes can very significantly impair the mutual intelligibility of the speech varieties of the two populations, and effectively split one language into two. If fully modern language has existed for 50,000 years, then it's no suprise that all humans don't speak a single language... AnonMoos (talk) 16:30, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * One only has to look at Shakespearean English or the King James Bible to see English as we don't know it. HiLo48 (talk) 21:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * To give the OP an idea closer to home (the OP's IP locates to UK), think of Lancashire and Yorkshire - two locations right next to each other in the North of England, and yet they have two different dialects. The obvious reason for this is the fact that the Pennines separate them. In older times, people didn't move around as much as they do today, so geography became a factor in the speech of the two areas changing differently from each other and eventually emerging as two distinct dialects (changes which are now in modern times being lost and bringing them into a closer relationship with each other, now that travel between the two areas becomes more and more common). Over the course of 50,000 years or so, people came to populate the entire planet, but even so, in pre-modern times travel was very difficult, leading to groups being isolated from each other. Their languages then changed in different ways, leading to the large number of languages we have today. --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  23:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Language is like species in some way, in that they become localized, and significantly different over time. Widespread media tend to maintain and reinforce a language, which is one thing that keeps English strong. If there had been television 2,000 years ago, we might all still speak Latin in Europe and America. And if there had been television 4 million years ago, we might all speak Apeman. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * A partial version of this experiment has been run, in that there has been rather high literacy in Iceland for about 800 years, and a desire to preserve the legacy of the early sagas etc. The result is that modern Icelandic has more noun and verb inflections than any other current Germanic language, and Icelanders can still more or less read the sagas -- but the pronunciation of Icelandic has changed rather radically... AnonMoos (talk) 04:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Dam/Damn
In which dialects of English, if any, are dam and damn not homophones? I know the n is usually not pronounced in damn but usually pronounced in damnable. Is it ever pronounced in damning? The Hero of This Nation (talk) 22:40, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * As a native English speaker I have never heard them except as homophones, even when they are changed by regional or class accents they remain the same. I have never heard the n sounded in damning.  Richard Avery (talk) 22:50, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Generally the "n" is silent. It does come out in some combinations, like when the root word is suffixed by "-ation", "-able", etc. One colloquial usage (or an implied usage) is in expressions like, "That's a whole 'nother story." In most cases it's awkward to enunciate the "n". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * As noted in EO, related terms are "damage" and "condemn", deriving from the Latin damnare, which means "to damage". Note that the "n" in "condemn" is also normally silent in English, except for terms like "condemnation" and other related terms such as "indemnity". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:13, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * "A whole nother" has no implied "damn", that is just "another" split apart (by tmesis!). Adam Bishop (talk) 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * That was my theory at one time. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:17, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * EO and random googling indicates that the bulk of the evidence supports your statement. It's possible that the "dam'nother" theory is backwards (false) etymology. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)