Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 June 9

= June 9 =

Jump meaning in Japan
I always see Asian food with the word Jump in the name, such as "Jump Chicken". Is this the same kind of Jump that is in the title Shonen Jump, a Japanese manga magazine? What does it mean to Asians that I'm, an English-speaker, not getting? Thanks! ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 06:51, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Jump is jump in Japanese. I've never heard of "jumping chicken". If you mean odorigui or "jumping shrimp", see these., , and . Oda Mari (talk) 07:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "I always see Asian food with the word Jump in the name" - where? I've never seen it.　The only thing on my Google search (ジャンプ　チキン) remotely connected was this dogfood. --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  10:45, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't know if it's related at all, but the cooking term "sauté" is derived from the French word for "jump". (Because with the "proper" technique, the food in the pan "jumps" when sautéing.) -- 140.142.20.229 (talk) 17:36, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I live in Oswego, New York, and Asian restaurants do this frequently, adding Jump to the into the names of Asian dishes. I assume it has nothing to actually do with the act of jumping. I figured it meant something to Japanese speakers. ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 09:54, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you sure it's not a typo for 'Jumbo'? Or maybe you should ask? --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  11:17, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What kind of "Asian" restaurants are we talking about? Indian? Japanese? Chinese? Middle eastern? That could help us narrow down what language this possible link is to. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 05:25, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Extravagances and extravaganzas
An extravagance is usually considered something undesirable and worthy of criticism. It's wasteful and immoral. Right?

But an extravaganza is something that attracts the positive attention of many people, whether as contributors, participants or spectators. It "may more broadly refer to an elaborate, spectacular, and expensive theatrical production". It's a good thing, if not something we would necessarily be involved in every day.

So why do we have these very similar words to mean things that carry very different moral charges? --  Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   09:43, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The "enjoyable but not sinful excess" is an example of "enough is enough, and too much is plenty," maybe. I found a reference giving the origin as extravagari, referring to "unclassified papal decrees," which conjured up the image of endless rolling hills of parchment back in the 14th century.  Compare with "over the top," a phrase that can be also used as a criticism or an accolade ("Jack often uses an over-the-top manner of writing."  ;-) ) --- OtherDave (talk) 13:13, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "Extravagari" means "wander beyond" or "outside" (in the sense of the papal documents, they were ones that didn't fit into any particular category like letters, bulls, canonical decrees, etc, but it could literally mean walking somewhere far away or wandering around without any purpose). "Extravagant" and "extravaganza" both mean something excessive, and since the latter comes directly from Italian, I guess Italians don't think excess is immoral! Adam Bishop (talk) 14:04, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The key defining feature of "Extravagance" is it's over-the-top nature; it wouldn't be extravagant if it wasn't far beyond what is "normal". An extravaganza is also over-the-top, spectacular, etc.Riffraffselbow (talk) 14:06, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * From Latin nouns ending in ntia, English has some words via French and ending in nce.
 * (Exceptions are Vulgar Latin stantia [unattested] and Old French influence.)
 * extravagance (definitions and etymology)
 * stance (definitions and etymology)
 * cadence (definitions and etymology)
 * credence (definitions and etymology)
 * influence (definitions and etymology)
 * From some of the same Latin words ending in ntia, English has other words via Italian and ending in nza.
 * extravaganza (definitions and etymology)
 * stanza (definitions and etymology)
 * cadenza (definitions and etymology)
 * credenza (definitions)
 * influenza (definitions and etymology)
 * English used extended meanings of those Italian words when it adopted them. -- Wavelength (talk) 18:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think the "moral" differences between extravagant and extravaganza may have something to do with who is performing the action. An extravagance usually refers to something from the buyer's point of view: "Jack, I think you need to cut down on the Faberge egg purchases; they're a little extravagant, don't you think?". However, sellers are the ones who hold extravaganzas: "Come on down to Discount Bob's Savings Extravaganza!" It's in the seller's best interests to advertise their largess. Matt Deres (talk) 16:43, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Good point, Matt. Oscar Wilde would definitely have agreed with that.  I'm getting that if you're going to be excessive, it's best to really go to town and exaggerate the extravagance, flaunt it, celebrate it.  Thanks everyone.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   05:53, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


 * English also has the following words.
 * intelligence (definitions and etymology) from Latin via Old French
 * intelligentsia (definitions and etymology) from Latin via Russian
 * -- Wavelength (talk) 07:14, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * [I am wikifying the 10 words mentioned in my message of 18:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC). -- Wavelength (talk) 15:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)]


 * Thanks, Wavelength. There's always a bigger picture, isn't there.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   21:32, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Japanese sentence help -- 宿の件
Hi... any clues about this one?

宿の件ですが、わたしの家にとまれば、いいですよ.

I want the sentence to mean something like "There's an inn (i.e. an inn nearby), but you are welcome to stay at my house", but does it? I can't quite get my head round 宿の件. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.34.56 (talk) 19:15, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "宿の件ですが、" means "as for the/your lodging". "There's an inn nearby" would be "近くに宿もありますが". Oda Mari (talk) 19:32, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I cannot quite understand how "...の件ですが" means "as for". Is it possible to dissect that phrase or should I just treat it as a unit? Also, would "宿は、..." mean the same thing? 81.151.34.56 (talk) 20:51, 9 June 2010 (UTC).


 * 件 means 'business' or 'matter', so the phrase "...の件ですが" would mean 'as for the business of...' or 'as for the matter of...,' and can be shortened to 'as for'. As for your last question, "宿は、..." does mean more or less the same thing, but is more abrupt. --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  22:16, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Sorry to bang on about this, but I would like some more advice on ですが. In other sentences I've encountered, ですが always means "is but". For example, "東京は、おもしろいですが、ぶっかがたかいです. ", "Tokyo is interesting but the prices are expensive". In this case we would seem to have, paraphrasing, "There is the matter of the lodging, but you are welcome to stay at my house". Is that how it works? 81.151.34.56 (talk) 22:35, 9 June 2010 (UTC).
 * ですが is just a casual way of introducing a topic. Japanese has many topic markers, of which は is only one. Also, が doesn't necessarily mean "but". You have to look at the context. If I were to translate your sentence into natural English, it would be "Regarding lodging — you should stay at my house." Paul Davidson (talk) 00:35, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Basically you could put it that way. ですが is very often used when introducing a topic which is thought of as some sort of problem or is troubling in some way or another. You could think of it as "I'm sorry to bring this up, BUT...." Alternatively, you could just think of it as 'as for', as said above. --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  23:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks KageTora, I think I see it now. 81.151.34.56 (talk) 23:12, 9 June 2010 (UTC).

The Simpsons in Catalan
According to this article, The Simpsons has been dubbed into Catalan, but have DVDs ever been released with the Catalan audio tracks? L ANTZY T ALK 23:09, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If nobody here knows, you might get an answer at the reference desk of the Catalan Wikipedia. --NorwegianBluetalk 18:16, 10 June 2010 (UTC)