Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 May 17

= May 17 =

L'Internationale in Chinese
Hello, everyone. This is a question I have been meaning to ask for a while now, but have never got around to. In The Internationale in Chinese, third stanza, last line, is "鲜红的太阳照遍全球" an intentional reference to Mao Zedong? Thanks,  Intelligent  sium  00:05, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * As your citation says, the translation was in 1923. Mao Zedong wasn't that important at the time. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, of course! I suppose that's what I get for not reading through the article carefully enough. resolved, then.  Intelligent  sium  20:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

'Meaning' of Sushi
Does the word for a Japanese type of food, "Sushi", (寿司, 鮨, or 鮓?), have a transleatable meaning in English? --220.101.28.25 (talk) 10:50, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure: sushi, which is also an English word nowadays. According to our article Sushi, the word originally meant "it's sour" in Japanese. +Angr 11:12, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It is a lexicalized form of the adjective 酸し (sushi) "the taste of vinegar (su), sour", which is 酸い (sui) in modern Japanese. As with all verbs as well, the conclusive (終止形) and was overtaken by the attributive (連体形). Hence, susi (conclusive) > suki (attributive). Finally, the medial -k- drops out resulting in sui. This is a regular formation seen in all regular adjectives such as atsushi / atsui, samushi / samui, ooshi > ooi, etc etc. The kanji are just ateji. 180.11.43.110 (talk) 11:35, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * So, bascially "the taste of vinegar (su), sour", is correct? FYI This orginates from an edit to sushi by a new account.  (I've been 'patrolling' wp:User creation log last day or 2.) Among other changes, they said it meant "balance". AGF, I just wanted to check that it wasn't 'kosher'. Sad to see so many first edits by new accounts are "unconstructive".  Many thanks. Arigato Gozaimasu. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 12:41, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, 'arigatou gozaimashita' would be better here, because the problem has been solved. -- KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 15:55, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * A guy running a sushi bar once told me it meant "health". That might have been sales hype. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:20, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Speed of writing in different systems
I was wondering if anyone has researched the speed of writing in different scripts and systems. A friend of mine told me that there is no need to learn shorthand if you write in Urdu as it is much quicker than writing in English, and it certainly looks quick with its simple connected lines, and of course omission of consonant markers when taking notes. I think that this would apply to all languages written in the Arabic script. This got me thinking, are languages that use ideographs faster or slower to write, you would have fewer graphemes but they are more complex. Indic scripts like devanagari look as though they would be the slowest to write, with no cursive form, but on the other hand some words become very compact with combining forms. Has anyone looked into how fast proficient people can write in different systems? -- Q Chris (talk) 11:13, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I s'll search no more, but ask here instead.
In Aaron's Rod, the author puts the phrase "I s'll" (presumably equivalent to "I shall") in the protagonist's mouth, except when he is speaking to more upper class people. Examples: "I s'll never break my heart." or "I s'll be alright in the morning." I guess this represents a dialect of the Midlands, Derbyshire perhaps, spoken in the 1920s. Our article on East Midlands English mentions examples such as ''"We sh'll ay to do it ussens." (We shall have to do it ourselves)'', but uses "sh'll" instead of "s'll". How should "s'll" be pronounced in the sentences I quoted? Using a voiceless postalveolar fricative, an alveolar fricative, or something else? Thanks in advance. ---Sluzzelin talk  11:30, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know those terms, but when I've heard similar expressions used colloquially in the USA, the "s" is like a "z". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Off the top of my head, I can say that this may be still used in the West Country, and as far as I can tell, the 's' is pronounced as a 'z', as per BB's answer above (in the West Country 's' is very often pronounced as a 'z' anyway, not just here). Hope this helps. -- KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 20:01, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * While I agree about the hard s in West Country speech (though in Bristle s tends to be soft), I'm not so sure about the construction "I s'll", which doesn't sound like any dialect I've heard. DuncanHill (talk) 11:53, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Having paid quite a bit of attention lately to various English dialects spoken on the British Isles, also thanks to some answers I received here a while ago, I didn't expect this pronunciation, and do not recall having consciously heard it. Thanks, Bugs & KägeTorä. ---Sluzzelin talk  10:43, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Polish word "westchnąć"
Google says "westchnąć" is Polish for "sigh". Is that correct? How do you pronounce it? I tried to read a few pronunciation guides, but they are long and hard to understand themselves. 24.3.225.136 (talk) 16:16, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, sigh (as a verb, not a noun) is correct. It's pronounced (approximately "vestkhnonch").—Emil J. 16:36, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Correct. The verb (infinitive, "to sigh") is westchnąć; the noun ("a sigh") is westchnienie. The Venetian Bridge of Sighs, for example, is known as Most Westchnień in Polish. Approximate pronunciation would be, as Emil wrote, VEST-khnonch, where "kh" is the same as "ch" in Scottish "loch". Not easy, I know; you may omit the T in a relaxed pronunciation. — Kpalion(talk) 09:15, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if you're just looking for the Polish sighing onomatopoeia, that would be simply ech or ach. — Kpalion(talk) 09:18, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Chicken Curry/Curry Chicken, Curried Chicken?
I was just curious to one of postings having written it's "chicken curry"? (Title of the search is Curry Chicken, yet it starts off chicken curry) Isn't it usually the verb before the noun? I know curried chicken is correct but why do people call it barbecue chicken, I know the proper pronunciation is barbecued chicken! Does the spice usually come before the noun it's on? Why is it in this case it's reversed? I know curry is used as a verb when used with an object so wouldn't the object be the chicken? Please keep me informed about your take on this or any opinions or clarifications you maybe have!

Thanking you in advance, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.99.212 (talk) 18:16, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I think there's a difference between Chicken Curry and Curried Chicken. Chicken Curry is an honest-to-goodness curry that just happens to use chicken as its main meat ingredient. Curried Chicken is a way of preparing chicken that just happens to use curry as its main flavouring.  Depending on the origin of the recipe, the "curry" in Curried Chicken may be an authentic combination of ingredients, or just some powder sprinkled from a jar or packet.  --  Jack of Oz   ... speak! ...   21:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * While English may normally work that way, part of me feels that chicken curry and curried chicken are the same thing. See also: chicken vindaloo. Paul Davidson (talk) 01:55, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Curry is a sauce. "Chicken curry" is a sauce with pieces of chicken in it, "curried chicken" is a chicken with sauce (or, in fact, some other method of spicing) on it.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)