Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 May 23

= May 23 =

Two words, same meaning, different connotations?
Hey there. I am a third year French student, and I have come upon two words lor(s)que and quand, both of which translate to English when. I was wondering in what situtations (with examples) one would use each. Thanx    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.229.236.200 (talk) 02:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * About.com has a good page about this very question. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:15, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Breadalbane, Scotland
I think this is pronounced (Br'd-al-bin). Any comments please? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  09:11, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That's what the article says, Kitty. Are you questioning it?  If it's any help, there's a Breadalbane in Australia, and it's usually pronounced Brəd-AWL-bən (except by ignoramuses like I was for years, who call it "BRED-əl-bayn").  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   09:21, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes - I put it there but I don't have a written source - just aural ones. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  09:23, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Webster's New Geographical Dictionary gives \brə-ˈdȯl-bən\ (for the area in Scotland; it's unaware of the Australian one), which is more or less the pronunciation you suggest. I'm going to change it to IPA in the article, though, and move it so that it's clear what we're giving the pronunciation of. Deor (talk) 10:42, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The BBC Pronouncing Dictionary of British Names (2nd ed. 1983) has both /brɪˈdælbɪn/ and /brɪˈdɔlbɪn/ ("the second is appropriate for the Earl of ~"). --Cam (talk) 18:00, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Which means what? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  13:48, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Presumably it means that the Earl pronounces his title /brɪˈdɔlbɪn/ but the place itself is pronounced /brɪˈdælbɪn/. See Harewood House for a similar division between the aristocratic title and the local standard pronunciation of the place name.  Ka renjc 18:53, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Points and scoring
I was thinking about how points and scoring are treated in various languages.

I believe that the Polish word for score would translate morpheme by morpheme as *pointation. The Japanese word for score would translate as point count or point number. So why in English is it a score? Any other variations?

Yesterday I was talking to a bank employee about how it makes no sense to call an account balance a "balance" as nothing is actually being balanced. I cynically proposed that it be called a "score", that is how in our world we keep score: with money. Are there languages which use the same word for a bank balance as for a game score? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.249.186 (talk) 10:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The word score comes from an old word for a notch, and hence a tally. Banks used to spend hours after closing-time "balancing", i.e. checking that the difference between cash in and cash out balanced to the exact penny the increase in cash held.  Employees were not allowed to leave the building until this had been done to the last penny.  I agree that score would be a good word to use.    D b f i r s   11:42, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Except that score comes from scoring a stick or rod and that is equally quirky, although it is novel so seems like a good idea. Balance is perfectly logical and understood, as explained by the previous poster. Your account is balanced every moment of time between what is put in and what is taken out, the "scales" may not be "even" but that does not pertain to the argument. Richard Avery (talk) 14:18, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, the original question. In Spanish they use the term marcar which originally meant to mark or score (as with a knife) or leave a scar. Similar to the English score. In South America it is not uncommon to use anotar(se) as a verb meaning to score which also can translate to English as to note or write down Richard Avery (talk) 14:29, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The mark you get at the end of the year in a class is called "la nota" in (LAm) Spanish, where "marca" means a brand name. Steewi (talk) 02:24, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

British English
The British call cookies biscuits, so what do they call biscuits? --70.129.186.243 (talk) 22:39, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by biscuits? DuncanHill (talk) 22:44, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If you mean these things, we don't call them anything as they don't exist here. DuncanHill (talk) 22:46, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I think the closest thing we have are scones, which are sweet but otherwise very similar, but are usually used for cream teas rather than eaten with gravy. In terms of usage, dumplings are quite similar, I suppose. --Tango (talk) 00:41, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You also get savoury scones (e.g. cheese scone), plain scones, etc. but these might be regional. -- Q Chris (talk) 07:51, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * By scones, we mean these not these. Apparently, "Round-shaped British scones can resemble North American biscuits in appearance, but scones rely on cold butter for their delicate, flaky texture, while biscuits are more often made with shortening and are crumbly rather than flaky. Also, while scones are served with coffee and tea or as a dessert, biscuits are served more as a side bread often with breakfast."  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:56, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, or even as the entire breakfast, especially in the past in impoverished parts of the South. +Angr 16:04, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Cookies are biscuits with chocolate-chips in them 82.44.55.254 (talk) 23:30, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Those are specifically Maryland Cookies. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * What? Maryland Cookies are a specific brand of cookies. There are lots of chocolate-chip cookies that aren't sold under the Maryland brand. --Tango (talk) 16:02, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There are non-chocolate-chip cookies. A cookie is more rustic looking than a biscuit, but it doesn't necessarily have anything added to it. --Tango (talk) 00:41, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Most things called cookies in the UK are large and fairy soft/moist -- Q Chris (talk) 07:53, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Care to clarify? I've known some pretty tough fairies!  Dismas |(talk) 08:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's another one: the English call private schools "public schools", so what do they call public schools? +Angr 07:34, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Really? Wow, that's strange... "state schools", perhaps? {&#123; Sonia &#124;talk&#124;simple}&#125; 07:43, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Not all "private schools" in the UK are called (or call themselves) Public Schools: an alternative name is Independent school. "State school" is the normal term for non-private schools; an older term was Council school. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 08:16, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And these include church schools, which are mainly funded by councils (that is, by taxpayers), but outside council control and free to discriminate against children whose parents aren't of a religion acceptable to the school. DuncanHill (talk) 09:36, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Public School (UK): "The term 'public' was adopted from the Public Schools Act 1868 and refers to the fact that the school is open to the paying public, as opposed to, for example, a religious school open only to those part of a certain church, or private education at home." Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


 * And if you want to be more technical, most state schools in the UK are known as maintained schools, meaning they are maintained by funding from the council. 86.178.73.218 (talk) 16:34, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The Americans call a 'tap' a 'fawcett', but anything that comes out of it is still called 'tap water', not 'fawcett water' (might have the spelling wrong and confusing it with the actress (Farrah Tapp(?))). --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  09:32, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It's faucet, and we use it in addition to, not to the exclusion of, tap. +Angr 09:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * However, there was a joke circulating in the mid-70s about a running water tap at the Egyptian pyramids, referred to as a "Pharoah Faucet". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:14, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And there was the guy who studied that pharonic device to the highest level at uni, he got a Pharoah Faucet Major. Boom Boom Richard Avery (talk) 09:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Oho - keep them flowing :) --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  10:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)