Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 November 8

= November 8 =

Confused by grammatical terms
I used to think that terms like "noun phrase", "verb phrase", etc. were defined in terms of their functions in a sentence. When I looked up their Wikipedia entries, they were explained as defined in terms of their heads. It seems to me that these terms and similar ones are defined syntactically, based on their structures rather than their functions.


 * 1) Is the concept of a head universal among different types of grammars and schools of thought? Is it a term that's used only in some types of grammar?
 * 2) What are the grammatical terms for phrases that function as
 * a noun?
 * a verb (say a verb together with its auxiliaries and modifiers, but not including any objects and complements)?
 * an adjective?
 * an adverb?

I may have misunderstood something. If so, please point out my mistakes and help unconfuse me. Thanks. --173.49.78.4 (talk) 12:49, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Many "modifiers" of verbs are actually often considered to be less closely bound to the verb than a direct object... AnonMoos (talk) 16:35, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that some concept of a 'head' will be found in pretty well all grammatical theories (for example to capture the generalisation that some languages have predominantly "modifier-head" order, and others predominantly "head-modifier". But the precise meaning of "head" may well vary from theory to theory. One of the prevalent theories is X-bar theory, which sees many functionally different structures (verb phrase, noun phrase etc) as all having the same fundamental pattern of Head/Specifier/Adjunct.


 * I don't quite understand your second question. "Noun", "Verb" etc are in most theories used to refer to (functional) classes of words, not phrases. When you talk of "a phrase that functions as a noun", I suppose you mean an NP, which might be realised as an N (noun word) or a N' (noun plus determiner) or NP (noun, plus adjunct and possibly determiner). --ColinFine (talk) 08:54, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm the OP. In my second question, maybe it would be clearer if I had said "function like" instead of "function as". The Wikipedia article on noun phrase defines it as a phrase with a noun as the head, so a noun phrase seems to have to contain a word in the word class of nouns. However, some noun-like phrases are gerundive (e.g. "running five miles a day"), while some others are adjectival nouns (e.g. "the elderly"). I was wondering what the correct term is for phrases that function like a noun, regardless of whether they are constructed by adding modifiers to a noun.


 * It seems that in general, a structurally-defined "X phrase" may not function like a word of class X. Take the preposition phrases as an example, most of the time they are adverbials, but they can also be post modifiers for nouns. --98.114.98.27 (talk) 13:19, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Arabic help
How do you write the Arabic in this picture: File:Emirates_Flight_Catering.jpg

The article for Emirates Flight Catering needs to have the name in Arabic. Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 18:40, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It says "al-imiraat" then a line to separate the rest (not a letter), "li-tamwin al-ta'iraat", so in Arabic "الإمارات | لتموين الطائرات". Adam Bishop (talk) 20:04, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Adam! WhisperToMe (talk) 15:16, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

new shool slang-what does this mean...?
i have 12 year old daughter who is having probs in shool.told her any questions ask me,but ran in2 probs.have looked in dictionary & here-no solutions can u tell me the meaning of what she was called it was either wren,wrem or rem?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.222.77 (talk) 18:43, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you mean school or shul? Wren is a bird, REM is rapid-eye movement in sleep, or a unit for measuring radiation doses.  (Have no idea on "wrem".) -- AnonMoos (talk) 20:02, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The help desk post said school. I guess from "wren,wrem or rem?" that the poster is guessing on spelling based on pronunciation, and it might be something other than those three. It can help to know where it is. Your IP address is registered in London. Was this in London? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * From what I gathered, 90.209 's daughter was called this, and it's a slang word used among the students of that school. I don't think any of AnonMoos's suggestion are the direct answer (but here are the links to REM (disambiguation), Rapid eye movement sleep, Wren, Wren (disambiguation). WREM seems to have been a radio station and redirects to WXME). Urban dictionary, of course, has a number of similar sounding terms such as rem (short for "remedial", "an idiot - but in a good way", wren, nothing for "wrem", but also reem. Some of these meanings are quite nasty and vulgar, and I certainly don't mean to upset you or your daughter. Perhaps it would be helpful if you provided some more context (who called her that, was it meant in an affectionate way, meant to tease her, etc ...) ---Sluzzelin  talk  20:16, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, 'ren' has a couple of possible meanings, some of which might be current in London secondary schools. Have you got a parents' evening coming up, or similar excuse to meet some of her teachers? Interested teachers generally keep track of current slang in their schools (I remember my language and science teachers particularly took pleasure in watching the spread of new words), and they might be able to advise. 86.166.42.171 (talk) 20:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * "Rem" was an unkind term used when I was in school, short for "remedial". I do hope that things improve for your daughter. DuncanHill (talk) 09:12, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope so too. Please do go to the school and ask them to make absolutely sure that your daughter isn't being bullied. You might need to speak to more than one person, for example the class teacher or form tutor, the Special Needs Co-ordinator (SENCO), the head of year, the school head or deputy head. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:48, 11 November 2010 (UTC)