Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 October 2

= October 2 =

Wages of sin is death
If the sentence "The wages of sin is death" is grammatically correct, then is this sentence also correct: "Is the wages of sin death, or isn't they?" The Hero of This Nation (talk) 06:05, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "The wages of sin is death" isn't grammatically correct because the subject, "wages", is plural. It should be "The wages of sin are death". So the second sentence should read "Are the wages of sin death, or aren't they?" If you're keen on using the singular, then you could replace "wages" with something like "reward" or, if you want to be poetic, "fruit". L ANTZY T ALK 07:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Romans 6:23 in the KJV reads, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."  Same "wages of sin is death" in the NIV and the RSV.  I think that's what the question is about.   There is a reason for this, but I can't think of it off-hand.--Shirt58 (talk) 07:39, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Chambers 20th Century Dictionary, 1983 edition, page 1462, notes that wages is "plural in form, but sometimes construed as singular". DuncanHill (talk) 09:09, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * And the OED has
 * "¶The pl. was formerly often construed as sing.


 * 1388 [see 2e]. 1539 in Abstr. Protocols Town Clerks Glasgow (1897) IV. 118 Everilk ane to haif ane lyik waigis. ("Everyone to have one same wages.")1551 ROBINSON tr. More's Utopia II. ix. (1895) 302 Theire dayly wages is so lytle that it will not suffice for the same daye. 1621 SCLATER Quæst. Tythes Introd. (1623) B1, How easie is it to answer, that Tythes was that inheritance, and Tythes is this wages. 1679 L. ADDISON 1st St. Mahumedism 23 As for his wages, it amounted to so little, that it would not do him much service. 1731-9 TULL Horse-hoeing Husb. Notes on Pref. (1822) 321 As their wages is supposed to be low, their masters find them in tools to work with."


 * Hope this helps. DuncanHill (talk)
 * Gloss of first example added--Shirt58 (talk) 10:05, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Since the singular "wages" has been obsolete for two hundred years, it is questionable whether it should be included in a newborn sentence, especially one that uses a distinctly modern construction like "Is X Y, or isn't it?" which in the past would probably be expressed by "Is X not Y?". But if the OP really wants to perpetrate such an anachronism, his question should be "The wages of sin is death, isn't it?" not "The wages of sin is death, isn't they?" If "wages" is to be construed as singular, it must take a singular pronoun. "Isn't they" is ungrammatical in any century. L ANTZY T ALK 09:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)


 * We can compare different versions in different languages at http://www.multilingualbible.com/romans/6-23.htm. The first Greek version listed has the word ὀψώνια with the definite article τὰ in the neuter plural nominative (the conjunction γὰρ being interposed).
 * —Wavelength (talk) 14:25, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Nervous in the service
Anyone know what the origin of this phrase is? Thanks! 91.32.96.184 (talk) 06:12, 2 October 2010 (UTC)


 * It was the title of a marching song sung by women during WWII. The chorus goes "If you're nervous in the service, And you don't know what to do / Have a baby, get out of the Navy." Later, it was generalized to just meaning "nervous", so that the word "service" is now just a bit of rhyming nonsense, like the "Ruth" in "that's the truth, Ruth". The phrase hasn't always had an erectile connotation, since it was used in 1964 as the title of a Breezly and Sneezly cartoon. L ANTZY T ALK 07:35, 2 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Lantzy. 91.32.96.184 (talk) 08:38, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Examples of the type "I saw the bomb burst".
I understand the sentence "I saw the bomb burst." is a good English sentence. How about "I saw him laugh."? What are the restrictions for the above pattern to be acceptable? Thanks.121.242.23.197 (talk) 10:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)Vineet Chaitanya


 * Fixed formatting. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 15:50, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "I saw him laugh." is indeed a good English sentence. Are you asking for restrictions on the pattern:
 * "I saw [noun] [ bare infinitive of verb]." ? 109.155.37.180 (talk) 15:50, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Could this be because you could also say "I saw him laughing"? There is possibly a subtle difference  between the two but they are essentially the same and both acceptable -- Q Chris (talk) 17:36, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ... e.g. one might say of a boxer "I saw him fight last week", as opposed to "I saw him fighting in the street".   D b f i r s   20:13, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. Vineet Chaitanya —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.242.23.197 (talk) 11:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix." Looie496 (talk) 01:56, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "Angel-headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection
 * to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night."
 * D Wiki Dao  &#9775;  (talk)  04:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Translation request Lithuanian (?) to English
On nl:, someone requested a translation of

LABAS VILIUK KAIP TU LAIKAIS TU NESERGAT PARASIK?

I don't know why it is in all-capitals, but it appears to be Lithuanian. Google Translate provides a partial translation only. 83.81.60.233 (talk) 15:34, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Google translates everything except "viliuk", "nesergat", and "parasik" as "hello how are you today you". "Neserg" apparently means "suffering", while "nesergat" means "ill"; "para" means "day", while "paras" and "parasi" mean "days" (all according to Google). "Viliuk" might be a nickname or a misspelling of the common Lithuanian given name Vilius. "Viliu" without the "k" gets translated as "Vilius". "labas viliu kaip tu laikais tu neserga parasi" gets translated as "Vilius hello how are you today you are suffering from days". The question is, why are k's and t's hung on to the ends of words? Until a (native) speaker comes along, this is all I can do. Rimush (talk) 21:13, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I knew a Lithuanian speaker and he once tried to explain to me how given names have a different ending when you are addressing someone directly, than when you are talking about someone in the third person. I may have got that wrong though - bring on a Lithuanian! Alansplodge (talk) 22:59, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That seems to be true (see vocative case), though since I have absolutely no knowledge of Lithuanian I don't know if that's what's going on in this instance. —Bkell (talk) 04:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Hindi: meaning of word on sign, appears to be सीनेकी
A sign on an ebay advert says "Singer sInekI Machine". When I try to google search for सीनेकी I seem to end up on Hindi adult sites, though I am sure the meaning of this vintage sign was totally clean! What does the middle word mean? -- Q Chris (talk) 17:28, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not know this Hindi word, but I am reminded of Singer Sewing Machines.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 18:12, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, when I tried to look the word up I thought it would translate as "sewing". It is not in the |hi|sewing%0A%0A given as a translation by google though. -- Q Chris (talk) 18:59, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, using Google Translate on the Hindi word in the Hindi->English direction, the main translation given is "sewing", with alternatives 1. sewing, 2. tailoring, 3. seam, 4. needlework, 5. dressmaking. Looie496 (talk) 22:48, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed it refers to Singer sewing machine. Normally, one would have written "सीने की". But some groups do write the "post-positions" with nouns. Vineet Chaitanya —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.242.23.197 (talk) 07:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, suddenly it all becomes clear, the verb सीना is "to sew", but as a noun सीना means breast or chest which explains why google searches ended up at Hindi adult sites! -- Q Chris (talk) 10:05, 3 October 2010 (UTC)