Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 April 7

= April 7 =

Looking for a word
I am looking for a word that is an adjective and means something like "with respect to natural resources" (though it is preferably one word that can be placed in front of "disadvantage"; I cannot reword the sentence unfortunately because there are already two other words describing "disadvantage"). Thanks. 72.128.95.0 (talk) 00:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Ecological? Conservational? (If there is such a word.) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:07, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * What is at a disadvantage? The natural environment itself?  One country that has fewer natural resources than another?  Wanderer57 (talk) 00:27, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * As in (random example) "Japan is at a _________ disadvantage compared to the United States" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.128.95.0 (talk) 00:32, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Rewrite as "Japan is starved for natural resources, relative to the USA." Or you could say "deficient in", "lacking in", etc.  (It would be simpler if you would give us the whole paragraph so we can see why you don't want to rewrite it.) StuRat (talk) 06:07, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Starved "for"? Really? How interesting! 86.173.37.163 (talk) 21:14, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Would you prefer "starved of" ? That gets half as many G-hits as "starved for". StuRat (talk) 21:43, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


 * If the resources you have in mind are different kinds of mineral (and, at a stretch, oil and coal and gas, which I think are the things most commonly meant by "natural resources"), you might try mineralogical. 81.131.0.64 (talk) 12:17, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

language
can i have malayalam language —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.206.39.67 (talk) 00:59, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Malayalam? --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  01:24, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You can have it, but you'll need to spend several years learning it, and you'll have to share it with 36 million other people. Lesgles (talk) 03:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you looking for the Malayalam Wikipedia, which is here? See also Malayalam Wikipedia.--Shantavira|feed me 13:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

What's the French word for "fletcher"?
Wordreference.com, Babelfish, and Google Translate don't have it. --70.244.234.128 (talk) 01:40, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The word "fletcher" comes from the French into the English, since arrow = flèche. Using standard ways that occupations are constructed in French, I played around with Google Translate trying to translate possible french words back to English, and came up with a positive hit on "flèchier", which google translates back into English as "Fletcher".  See |en|fl%C3%A8chier.  -- Jayron  32  01:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * To be picky, in modern French it would be fléchier, with an acute accent, just as it is spelled in the surname Fléchier (which accounts for most of the Google hits). The word doesn't appear in the modern dictionaries that I've checked, but it is in this Old French dictionary, with the spellings flechier or flecher (Old French used accents much more sparingly). If you were looking for a way to talk about it in modern French you could also always just say fabricant de flèches. Lesgles (talk) 02:55, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * EO suggests a Germanic origin for that word. The German for arrow is "Pfeil". Possibly related? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:26, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Wiktionary says it's related to "fliegen" in modern German (and thus "fly" in English). Adam Bishop (talk) 10:45, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * "Pfeil" > Latin "pilum" (Engl. "pile", Dutch "pijl"), cf. High German consonant shift, thus "Pil" in Low German.--91.12.216.178 (talk) 09:57, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

What language is the word "Zaheregiu" if, in fact, ANY language?
There's currently a discussion going on about a dictionary definition article for the word Zaheregiu. But I can't even figure out what language the word IS in. The article says it was applied by ottomans to balkan traders, that leaves a lot of possibilities especially given how the balkans well... Balkanized! Any guidance that might help us make an informed decision would be appreciated. HominidMachinae (talk) 04:53, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It looks Romanian to me, but that's just my guess. Google Translate's language detector suggests Romanian as well. — Kpalion(talk) 10:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The fact that the plural used in the article is "zaheregii", and that the one reference in the article is to a book in Romanian tends to confirm this. Indeed I find myself wondering if in fact that is just a Romanian word for them, rather than a name. (No hits in the Romanian Wikipedia). --ColinFine (talk) 18:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * za– suggests Slavic to me; perhaps it's adapted from Slavic into Romanian? —Tamfang (talk) 19:05, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The answer (Romanian) and etymology (Ottoman Turkish) has been given on the AfD, by Anonimu No such user (talk) 14:22, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Japanese translation
Try as I might, and after extensive searching on Google, I can't seem to figure out how to translate かけ損. I know it has something to do with a loss or disadvantage because of 損, but I don't know how the meaning changes with かけ added on.--  十  八  05:16, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Google Translate comes up with "loss over", and then says "do you mean..." something similar looking (the item you linked to), which turns out to mean "multiplication". Does any of this make sense in the context you're looking at, or is Google Translate missing the mark? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:42, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I think it just means a (financial) loss. 損をかける means to cause a loss, so かけ損 is the loss that was caused. かける is one of those annoying words with a million different meanings like "run" in English, so I would expect machine translators to have problems. Multiplication is かけ算 (different kanji). -- BenRG (talk) 09:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

What meaning does the use of Prefix which is used in the following words convey?
There are two prefixes which are used very commonly. What general meaning, a brief meaning or idea does these two prefixes convey; the first prefix is "pre" and the second prefix is "peri". Both prefixes are used in words such as prepatellar, periumbilical (periumbilical region, what meaning do the two prefix in a broad sense convey "pre" and "peri"? aniketnik 08:59, 7 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aniketnik (talk • contribs)


 * As noted in EO, "peri-" means "around" and can also mean "through"; and "pre-" means "before". Their underlying Sanskrit origins are similar-looking words also. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:22, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, Greek and Latin words do not originate directly from Sanskrit, but the three languages share a common Proto-Indo-European background. AnonMoos (talk) 10:46, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. "Cognates" would have been a better term. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:53, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Greek peri– 'around' &ne; Latin per– 'through' (permeate, percolate...) —Tamfang (talk) 19:01, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * You used the term "prefix" which comes from "to fix in front" (as in "to place", not "to make operable again"). A common word "perimeter" means "to measure around". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:27, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * They are also cognate with the English prefixes "fore-" (as in "foretell", "foresee") and "for-" (as in "forgo", "forbid") respectively. The first means "before", like "pre-"; it is difficult to pin down a clear meaning for the second, but probably "away" catches it closest. --ColinFine (talk) 18:46, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation of zombie
Which is the correct pronunciation: zɒmbie (doll) or zoʊmbie (bone)? --Erithromastemyscosin (talk) 09:04, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The origin of the term would seem to indicate the second pronunciation would be more correct, but in America at least, we tend to say it the first way. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:11, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm interested - why do you think that the second pronunciation would be more correct?--91.148.159.4 (talk) 18:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Because of the word or words that it comes from. However, English-speakers are not known for trying very hard to maintain the original pronunciations of foreign words. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm interested too – why does Kikongo zumbi suggest the /oʊ/ vowel? Also, English-speakers are sometimes criticised for trying too hard to preserve foreign pronunciations, see e.g. here. Lfh (talk) 16:53, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * In my experience, the American pronunciation of foreign words containing "o" often uses oʊ where British pronunciation prefers ɒ: for example "kudos" and "cosmos". --ColinFine (talk) 18:52, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

For Americans who don't say mop and doll with the same vowel, the vowel you mean for Zombie is the one in mom, not the one in doll. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 17:57, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The Help:IPA for English table, for some reason, listed "doll" with the "cot" vowel. I have changed it now, with an invitation to explain on the talk page if anyone thinks I'm wrong. --Trovatore (talk) 18:23, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm afraid the final 'm' is making it hard for me to really tell whether "doll" is more like "mom" or "maul", but in any case "mom" should be a safe homophone for the first syllable of "zombie" in most American accents I know. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 19:52, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Trovatore – "doll" is definitely not a THOUGHT word, so it doesn't belong with "dawn", "fall", "straw" etc. I pronounce it [dɒl]. It may be one of those curious things, a CLOTH word, with either [ɒ], [ɑ] or [ɔ] depending on accent. Or it may be a LOT word, with either [ɒ] or [ɑ]. Or perhaps it's something else?  I'm afraid the lot-cloth distinction is as opaque to me as the merry-Mary distinction must be to many Americans. Lfh (talk) 20:12, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm -- maybe it's too confusing and should be removed from the table altogether, then. To me, yes, it has the same vowel as cloth, which is also the same vowel as thought, but definitely not the same vowel as lot. --Trovatore (talk) 20:35, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Researcher who wired up their own house to study their own baby
Who were this couple and what was this experiment? As I recall, it was a normal house, with one room devoted to equipment, and cameras and microphones recording everything that happened in the main living space. It studied the baby's exposure to language, and language development, from birth to two or three years old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.214.227 (talk) 10:41, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I recall watching something on ABC Television perhaps a few months ago which sounds like what you're talking about. You might try searching the ABC TV web site to see if you can find more information. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:43, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It was to study language acquisition by researcher Deb Roy of MIT: CNN story, TED speech Rmhermen (talk) 13:03, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * This is a common naturalistic data collection method in the study of first language acquisition; Roy's study is just one that happened to be covered in the popular media. See textbooks such as Goodluck's (1991) Language Acquisition and Ingram's (1989) First Language Acquisition. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 13:17, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * See also B. F. Skinner. —Tamfang (talk) 18:55, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't really see how that is related, except that it also involves babies. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 19:07, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There was a widespread myth that Skinner kept his child in a Skinner box; I linked to a passage that mentions that myth and its germ of fact. —Tamfang (talk) 20:40, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I understand that, but recording child language passively is nothing like putting someone in a Skinner box. In particular, recording in this way is generally not done with any intention to modify the subject's behavior. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 23:28, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Beckett
"This is out of my swimming range; I must Beckett to others" means what please? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  15:08, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * What was the context? If we knew who spoke it and what was going on when they spoke it, it may help to figure out which Beckett they meant.  In the English langauge world, the two most famous Becketts are probably Samuel Beckett, the Irish absurdist and Thomas Becket, the assassinated archbishop.  -- Jayron  32  15:14, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Margaret Beckett? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  15:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It was sent from a BlackBerry and I wonder if predictive text went wrong. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  19:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, in that case it is obviously an Autocomplete/Autocorrect glitch. Autocomplete is notoriously glitchy on many cellphones.  See this for more examples.  -- Jayron  32  20:55, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * And this for one of my personal favorites. —Angr (talk) 14:31, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Malapropism for beckon? —Tamfang (talk) 18:52, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Possibly "I must buck it to others," meaning, refer it to them. A buck slip is a form attached to material being sent to someone else as information or for further action. (I have to say, I haven't heard the term "buck slip" in decades and was surprised to find the example in the link.) --- OtherDave (talk) 01:17, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Writing help
Is there a site online where I can have someone proof read and give suggestions to something I write? I started writing/blogging for fun and wanted become a better writer. Thank you in advance.--Endlessdan (talk) 15:18, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * See Common Errors in English. -- Wavelength (talk) 18:17, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I think Endlessdan is asking for something more than catching errors, and in any case is asking for where they can get input from somebody else. --ColinFine (talk) 18:54, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 19:09, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Googling "writers workshop online" seems to offer some sites of this kind: whether any of them are useful, I couldn't say. --ColinFine (talk) 22:18, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Go ahead and post it right here. If it's long, we might put a collapse box around it, but, in any case, we should be able to give you a few pointers. StuRat (talk) 05:32, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Latin
Hey all. A while ago I heard about a small community somewhere in the world started by people of various background who had studied Latin, where they spoke solely Latin and spoke Latin to their children (the community reminded me of the film the Village, but without the things we must not speak of). I don't remember if this was a book/film or an actual community, but either way I'd like to know it better. Thanks. 72.128.95.0 (talk) 22:51, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * No mention in article Contemporary Latin. By the way, I would be skeptical whether the children brought up in such a village would end up speaking pure Ciceronian Latin, since children brought up among Hebrew revivalists in the early 20th-century didn't end up speaking Biblical Hebrew, and children brought up as Esperanto native speakers (since their father and their mother didn't share any common language other than Esperanto) commonly end up speaking the language in a form that shocks and horrifies Zamenhoff purists. AnonMoos (talk) 03:36, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The only thing Mr Google and his elves could come up with was this (rather odd) Latin news service from YLE.fi, the Finnish national radio service. Alansplodge (talk) 22:22, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Nuntii Latini is actually quite well known among Latin nerds (unlike the village, as far as I can tell), and has received favorable comments from the Vatican... AnonMoos (talk) 22:50, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * By any chance was the OP thinking of this article from the Daily Mail: Latin lessons for state school pupils aged five in language revival bid? I am kind of wondering about the query, it doesn't seem to be anything from the real world (or else Google would have turned up something) but if it figured in the plot of a novel, I'd be curious to know. (Also somewhat related to the OP's question is this article about Franco-Provençal and the Wikipedia article List of revived languages.) Mathew5000 (talk) 23:30, 8 April 2011 (UTC)