Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 February 26

= February 26 =

"Sandboxing" in general
Can you use the word "sandboxing" in a more general sense outside computer related stuff? Like in "sandboxing a new employee" (until he proves savvy), or "sandboxing a tool" (until it proves safe). Quest09 (talk) 01:52, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You could, but how many people would understand what you meant? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:05, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I can :) "I was just sandboxing my model train set until I decided on the final layout." SemanticMantis (talk) 04:04, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * You could, but it would be a terrible shame. What's wrong with "trying out"?  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  04:07, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Trying out" is not testing in a secure environment. Quest09 (talk) 14:29, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Sandboxing a new employee" would make me think of kitty litter, an analogy too far to my mind.  meltBanana  04:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It would make me think of sandbagging, which is probably not what's meant. —Angr (talk) 13:30, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, those are not the concepts I wanted to convey. But, then, what are the alternatives for a testing in a secure environment? Quest09 (talk) 14:29, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Testbed, test track, proving ground....--Shantavira|feed me 14:50, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Guys, he is specifically talking about the computer science concept. He wants to sound like a psychopath. I suggest you use the FreeBSD concept then, and say "We should jail the new employee until we feel comfortable having him around our stuff." 109.128.182.182 (talk) 17:31, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That's exactly the idea. But I don't want to sound like a psychopath, quite in contrary. Quest09 (talk) 01:08, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Quarantining" is a more common word with a similar meaning. Looie496 (talk) 23:50, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That sounds like "for sick people/mad dogs". Quest09 (talk) 01:08, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Testbed is OK. Quest09 (talk) 01:08, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Formal usage in the UK is a "probationary period", during which the employer and employee can terminate the employment contract with little or no notice, and which generally lasts for 3 or 6 months. After the probationary period has been successfully completed, the employee's contract changes (and sometimes they get a pay rise). Why would you wish to use anything different? --TammyMoet (talk) 09:41, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That's a different concept. The essence of sandboxing is that the entity operate in an environment that is isolated from the outside world except for a specific set of permitted interactions.  A clean room, for example, is a type of sandbox that has nothing to do with probation. Looie496 (talk) 18:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hindi translation
Can anyone translate the Hindi text found in this picture? edit: see link below Thanks Lexicografía (talk) 17:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It's a "members only" site so we can't see the picture. Roger (talk) 18:31, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Hmm, okay, try here then. Lexicografía (talk) 18:57, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't tell you what it says, but I can tell you it's Bengali and not Hindi. —Angr (talk) 19:20, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * amay bhalobase? --Soman (talk) 19:39, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Or amar bhalobase? I don't know Bengali, but Wiktionary tells me that আমার amar means "my" and ভালবাসে bhalobase is the 3rd person informal present of ভালবাসা "to love". But "I love you" is reported to be আমি তোমাকে ভালবাসি, which isn't what's in the picture. If Amar or Amay is a name, it could just mean "Amar/Amay loves...". The text in the photo does seem to end in an ellipsis... —Angr (talk) 20:24, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't read Bengali but due to a thread on this desk a month ago I can tell you that Ami tomake bhalobashi is a common transcription of a Bengali phrase that means "I love you". Looie496 (talk) 23:46, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

on vs l'on
In French, how does one know when to use 'on' and when to use 'l'on'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.128.95.0 (talk) 19:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression they're completely interchangeable, although I have heard that people prefer que l'on to qu'on because the latter is a homophone of con. —Angr (talk) 20:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * They're interchangeable in meaning, but "l'on" usually appears after a conjunction ending in a vowel (at least in written French). By the way, the syllable [kõ] is rather commonly-occurring and unavoidable in French (unlike the syllable [fʌk] in English)... AnonMoos (talk) 20:16, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I was given the same advice as Angr, but I think it's a rule that is paradoxically followed more in writing than in speaking, where the homophony would actually more noticeable. "Si l'on" is also pretty common in the written language. In other contexts, "l'on" can have an old-fashioned flavor, e.g. "Sur le pont d'Avignon, l'on y danse, l'on y danse..." Lesgles (talk) 21:37, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * See also French Wiktionary's entry on "l'on". It says that the usage of "l'on" instead of "on" is considered to be literary. In the 18th Century, grammarians saw its usage as euphonic, intended to avoid a hiatus. They recommended using it after "et", "ou", "qui", "que", "quoi", or "si". These recommendations weren't followed often, and these days, both forms are in usage ("si on veut" and "si l'on veut"). "L'on" should be treated as an elevated stylistic variation. (my rough and not completely literal translation) . ---Sluzzelin  talk  00:02, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Word for expert on medals
What would be the word for a scholar of or expert on medals, their histories and so forth? I actually need this for a Wikipedia article I am writing on Julius Iversen. I assume it would some sort of word ending in "ologist", and even if it doesn't exist it could be formed from a Greek root (but I don't know Greek, and my machine translator just gives a result in Greek alphabet characters).

According to the article medal, our word derives from the Greek "metallon" (μέταλλον) - but that means "mine", not "medal". So I'm stumped! Thanking in advance anyone who can help, Herostratus (talk) 20:37, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Exonumist (more specific than numismatist), or medallionist (although this refers specifically to makers, not experts) - I don't know of any that end in -ologist. Lexicografía (talk) 20:52, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Not "medallurgist", then? ( Sorry, couldn't help myself. ) But good on you, Lex. Who knew!? –  OhioStandard  (talk) 20:56, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, Wiktionary does claim there's such a word as medallurgy. —Angr (talk) 21:01, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, yeah. I was just going by the ones listed in M-W (which has excellent search features). None of the terms are very common, though. Lexicografía (talk) 21:04, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * To judge by this page the word phaleristics is used to mean the study of orders and decorations, but no-one yet seems to have coined phaleristicist or phaleristician (apart from me of course). --Antiquary (talk) 21:08, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * By the way, the etymology on the medal article seemed to be mistaken. The OED and other dictionaries now derive it just from medalia, "half a denarius", which in turns comes from the same root as the word medial (it's now fixed). That doesn't help answer your question though. Ancient Greek doesn't seem to have had an exact equivalent for our word medal. I like all the suggestions above, or we could turn to Modern Greek, which seems to use both μετάλλιο and παράσημο. Maybe parasemologist? (no g-hits for that, unfortunately) Lesgles (talk) 21:26, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * We have an article on faleristics. Sigillography is also a possibility, depending on what kind of medals you mean. Adam Bishop (talk) 22:48, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Faleristics. That seems the closest description of Iversen (you can see for yourself, I've just published the article: Julius Iversen). And I used the term "faleristicist" to describe him. There is a problem with that though: Pilc only established faleristics as a science in 1937, and Iversen died in 1900. But its very close to "phaleristicist" which is apparently proper Latin, so I suppose we're OK.

Thank you all for a most interesting and productive discussion which contributed to making a Wikipedia article better! Herostratus (talk) 02:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


 * According to this, a person knowledgeable in faleristics (which they spell 'phaleristics') is not a 'faleristicist' or even a 'phaleristicist', but a 'phalerist'. That word gets another 137 ghits.  Given the fluidity between the f- and ph- spellings, I suppose it could also be spelt as 'falerist'.  That word gets 34,700 ghits, but most of the early ones seem unrelated to faleristics (let alone phaleristics).  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  04:50, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, that makes sense, I changed it to "phalerist". Herostratus (talk) 15:11, 27 February 2011 (UTC)