Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 July 14

= July 14 =

pronunciation of -tion ending
Is there a rule of thumb for the way -tion ending is pronounced in different words like nation and question? Thanks for comments. --Omidinist (talk) 04:24, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * In my US English dialect they are "nay-shun" and "kwest-chun", so I guess the "s" in front of "tion" changes it from "shun" to "chun". StuRat (talk) 07:51, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's also /tʃən/ in digestion, combustion, exhaustion, and congestion. I think the general rule is /tʃən/ after /s/; /ʃən/ everywhere else. I can't think of any excep/ʃən/s, but some speakers may lose the distinction between /ʃ/ and /tʃ/ after /n/, so that words like intention can be said to have both. Angr (talk) 07:56, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The pronunciation of that syllable in the word Attention in military drill commands around the world would make an interesting study. HiLo48 (talk) 08:15, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Didn't Coleridge write: "As idle as a painted ship upon a painted otion"? --  Jack of Oz   [your turn]  11:39, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Voiceover for Game - Translation Request (German)
Hello guys,

I have a request. A mate of mine is making a mission for a well-known game, and he needs a voice-over doing. This needs to be in German. Anyway, he has asked me to do it. While I speak German, I don't have the confidence to be able to say my German is perfect, and for this reason I would like to ask you specialists to help me out with a translation. The text he wants me to say is:

"Shit, the Americans are landing here! We need immediate fire support! Can anyone hear this transmission? We need immediate fire support! Co-ordinates to follow, standby!"

I can get as far as this:

"Scheisse, die Amis sind heir! Wir brauchen [immediate fire support]! Kan niemand hoeren diese [transmission]? Wir brauchen [immediate fire support]! Die Ko-ordinaten folgen! Stehen zu!"

I know this is wrong, and that is why I am asking. Cheers, guys!

--  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  12:16, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no general German term for "fire support", I'd say "Wir brauchen Artillerieunterstützung" if you're asking for artillery support, or something like "Wir brauchen mehr Bodentruppen" if you're asking for ground troops. I would leave out the "transmission" - translated literally it would be "Übertragung" or Sendung", but "Kann uns irgendwer hören?" sounds much more idiomatic. I'd also leave out the "Stand by" at the end, it would be possible to translate but I don't think it would be very idiomatic in German in that context. By the way, if you want the line read by a native speaker with a bit of acting experience, send me an email :) -- Ferkelparade &pi; 12:29, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ferkelparade is a native speaker and I'm not, but I still have some comments to make. I'd say "Die Amis sind da" rather than "Die Amis sind hier", and I would leave out the definite article from "Koordinaten folgen" (just as it was left out in the original). I wouldn't omit "stand by"; I would translate it with "bitte warten". Angr (talk) 12:34, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Bitte warten" is certainly a fitting translation for "stand by", I'd mainly leave it out because I think it would break the flow...I imagine the whole thing to be read in a rather panicky voice, and "bitte warten" just makes me think of the overtly calm voice of a telephone operator telling me to hold the line :P -- Ferkelparade &pi; 12:44, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Cheers! I am sure you will do a better job than me. I have a Luxembourg accent - not appropriate at all for a German radio operator in WW2. I don't know how to email direct. Can you instruct me on my talkpage, and I'll get back to you immediately? Cheers! --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  12:36, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just go to Special:EmailUser/Ferkelparade. Angr (talk) 12:38, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Cheers, Angr. Wikipedia should be paying you. --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  12:40, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Pfft. They couldn't afford me. ;-) Angr (talk) 13:46, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Couldn't"? You mean they've tried? Or do you mean "wouldn't be able to"? A lovely conditional, that only makes sense in English and when translated directly into Japanese as a simple past...... --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  16:34, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant könnten, not konnten. Angr (talk) 17:06, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Based on the previous replies, and my (non-native) knowledge of German, I would translate this as: ''Scheiße, die Amis sind da! Wir brauchen unmittelbarer Artillierunterstützung! Kann uns irgendwer hören? Wir brauchen unmittelbarer Artillierunterstützung! Die Koordinaten werden folgen, bitte warten! I have never heard of "Amis" meaning "Americans", the normal German word is "Amerikaner"''. I don't know the German word for "transmission", I would have used "Nachricht" (meaning "news") but it would probably not be the right word. I almost wrote "bitte warten Sie" at the end, as I've become accustomed to using "Sie" to any unknown German person, but such a style would not probably be used in a war-time transmission. Please also note that I have not checked the overwhelmingly copious different endings of nouns that German has, so a native speaker can correct me. J I P &#124; Talk 19:47, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "transmission" would be something like "Übertragung" or "Sendung", in this particular case I would think of a "Funkspruch" or "Nachricht": "Kann jemand diese Nachricht/diesen Funkspruch hören". However, I would leave it out and prefer Ferkelparade's version.
 * Amis is informal and more accurate in this case.
 * "Die Koordinaten werden folgen, bitte warten!" Though correct, it would hardly be heard in this situation. It would be much shorter: "Koordinaten folgen!"
 * My suggestion would be: "Scheiße, die Amis sind da (or: Scheiße, die Amis kommen), wir brauchen sofort Hilfe (Hilfe is more general because I don't know the context: Artillerie-, Luftunterstützung, Bodentruppen etc. could also be possible) Kann uns (or: mich) jemand (also possible: irgendjemand, irgendwer) hören? Wir brauchen sofort Hilfe! Koordinaten folgen!" "Bitte warten" seems to be redundant, it's implied by "Koordinaten folgen!"--91.12.215.127 (talk) 22:45, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Muhammad's cat
We have a stub on Muezza, but no information on the name. What does "Muezza" mean, if anything? L ANTZY T ALK 17:25, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but searching for معزة is hampered by the fact that the Arabic word for "goat", maʕzah, is spelled the same. I know very little about Arabic, but it looks like Muezza probably has the same mu- prefix as Muhammad and Muslim, which means we should be looking for a verbal root that starts with ʕ-z- or something. Angr (talk) 17:48, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Presumably it's from the ayn-zayn-zayn root that has to do with power and strength, which also produces 'Izz and 'Aziz in Arabic. al-Mu'izz is one of the 99 names of Allah and according to that article means "The Giver of Honour". The cat has a feminine form of that word/name. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Topf <-?-> Pot
Do the German Topf and the English pot come from the same Germanic root? (Unfortunately their entries on Wiktionary don't go back that far.) --el Aprel (facta-facienda) 22:29, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * No, they don't. "Topf" (Middle Low German "dop(pe)", Low German "Dop" 'paring', esp. 'eggshell' in some dialects) is related to "tief" 'deep'. The origin of "pot" is rather unclear. There are many theories, here are two of them: maybe it comes from Old French "pot" (Pfeifer, Etymolog. Wb. des Deutschen, de Vries, Etymlog. Wb.), Vulgar Latin *pottus, or from Germanic *putta 'rotund' (de Vries). English pot is related to German "Pott" (borrowed from Low German/West Central German).--91.12.215.127 (talk) 23:11, 14 July 2011 (UTC)