Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 June 30

= June 30 =

German Warsteiner
What does it mean? I know that the -er means 'from', 'stein' means stone, and 'war' does not mean 'war'. But what does 'war' mean in German in this case? "Was"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiweek (talk • contribs) 00:48, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know that it means anything. Warsteiner_Beer_and_Brewery sais that the beer is brewed in Warstein, Germany. So the name just means "from Warstein". Wabbott9   Tell me about it....  01:38, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * According to Google Translate "war Stein" means "was rock". The article on Warstein doesn't give its etymology. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Often the etymology of town names isn't transparent. Often when one language comes to dominate an area, a toponym (placename) gets quite mangled in translation. The toponym Wabash (as in Wabash River) comes from a Native American language (the specific one escapes me at the moment) via French into English, and has nothing to do with the verb to bash, so it may be that Warstein isn't related to stein or the Indo-European root Hwes (where H is a laryngeal, not sure which one at the moment).  Wabbott9   Tell me about it....  02:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I am reminded of one of one of the more accepted explanations of the etymology of Oregon (toponym), which holds that it has the same root as Wisconsin, which is not readily apparent from the modern names in any way.  -- Jayron  32  03:05, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The German article doesn't mention a meaning either. But the Wäster river flows through the town. Rmhermen (talk) 04:36, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

"Stein" in German place names generally refers to a castle (or similar fortified structure) on a rock. As Rmhermen says, it's conceivable that "War" comes from the local river. This paper by an amateur historian has some other plausible speculations relating to various forms of the German words bewahren (keep, save) and Wehr (army, weir). It comes to the conclusion that War in this context refers to a fishing weir, but the arguments are more intriguing than conclusive. Hans Adler 09:45, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * First of all it's important to note that Warstein lies in the traditionally Low Saxon speaking area which excludes the etymology from the modern German word 'war'. In Low Saxon the place is called Waosten. --:Slomox:: &gt;&lt; 12:29, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Is this quote real?
"...in The Jade Goddess, the twelfth-century Chinese fable, Chang Po says to his beloved, “Since heaven and earth were created, you were made for me and I will not let you go.”" (according to a website) A variant from a Chemistry.com scientist says, "Since heaven and earth were created, you were made for me and I was made for you." I somehow find them suspicious. Thanks. Imagine Reason (talk) 01:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Very suspicious, as he is unlikely to have had such a good command of English. However, I don't see why he shouldn't have expressed that sentiment: people say the most illogical things to their beloveds.--Shantavira|feed me 07:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

It is real. It is taken from "The jade goddess" in Famous Chinese Short Stories translated and retold by Lin Yutang. The original Chinese story is 碾玉观音 collected in 《京本通俗小说》 or 《警世通言》. It seems to me that this particular plot is fabricated by Lin, the original story is different. --刻意(Kèyì) 11:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Which version of the quote is correct, or were both variations in the story? May I trouble you for a link, or at least the original quotes (in Chinese)? Thanks so much. Imagine Reason (talk) 11:43, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * see Abridged Lin's English story contains your quote or re-translated Chinese version of Lin's story, finally the original Chinese story in early Vernacular Chinese.--刻意(Kèyì) 11:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Reading the last link there, the original text, I can only find on page 10 of the word document, 秀秀道：“你記得當時在月臺上賞月，把我許你，你兀自拜謝［3］，你記得也不記得？” which doesn't really say what the English quote says. Imagine Reason (talk) 03:37, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If the story is originally from the 12th century, then that must not be the original. It looks like it's been translated into modern Chinese or baihua. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 03:48, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, that is, I think, the original text. The whole paragraph doesn't look like baihua. Imagine Reason (talk) 12:41, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

More Korean help
This document: Does it include an address? If so, what is the text of the address? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 07:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.twayair.com/img/V2/main2/copyright.gif
 * Yes, it reads 706-1 Yeoksam-dong, Gangnam-gu, Seoul. --Sushiya (talk) 12:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you! What is the actual Korean text (so I can copy and paste it)? WhisperToMe (talk) 19:29, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Parkinson's disease
What is the word which means "an inability to initiate movement"? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  12:06, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Akinesia. —Angr (talk) 12:25, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

-ling
The suffix "-ling" occurs in English in "earthling" and the rarely used word "hireling" and "foundling" and probably some others. If you search online dictionaries that match wildcards, with *ling, it includes "cling", "fling", "ailing", "killing", "rolling", "recycling" and lots of other things that are not instances of the use of that suffix. The same suffix occurs in German in "Häuptling" (chieftain), "Mischling" (hybrid, mongrel, or mixed-race person), "Feigling" (coward) and other words, and I have the impression that it's used more often in German than in English. Are there compiled lists of instances in English and German? Michael Hardy (talk) 18:27, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * For English there are some in wikt:Category:English words suffixed with -ling and wikt:-ling. Lexicografía (talk) 18:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * And for German there's wikt:de:Thesaurus:-ling. --Antiquary (talk) 19:00, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Lexicografia and Antiquary. Michael Hardy (talk) 19:41, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * A Danish poem by Halfdan Rasmussen begins like this: En kælling og en kylling og en killing der var tvilling tog til Kolding med en rolling for at købe for en skilling, meaning: a bitch and a chicken and a kitten who was a twin went to Kolding with a baby to buy for a dime. Also Danish yngling youngster, yndling favorite, svækling weakling, særling oddball, samling collection, gamling old man, ælling duckling, vælling gruel, and gnalling chunk of cheese. Bo Jacoby (talk) 19:11, 30 June 2011 (UTC).


 * This reminds me of German Säugling and English suckling &mdash; a baby feeding at its mother's breast. Michael Hardy (talk) 19:41, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Likewise, Dutch has zuigeling (suckling) and vondeling (foundling). The -ling suffix also appears in afstammeling (descendent), vertrouweling (trustee), huurling (mercenary), ouderling (deacon), tweeling (twin), eenling (loner), banneling/balling (an exile), dorpeling (village dweller), stedeling (city dweller), zwakkeling (weakling), nieuweling ('newbie'), vreemdeling (stranger), ellendeling (crook), hoveling (courtier), schipbreukeling (castaway), wellusteling (lecher), zaailing (seedling), krakeling (kringle). Iblardi (talk) 22:35, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * EO has some general info: ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * One not covered above is endling. I can't claim any credit for knowing this.  I was listening to a concert on the radio, and a new orchestral work by Andrew Schultz, called Endling, was being premiered.  The commentator explained that the word means what our article says.  Synchronicity is alive and well.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  13:09, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The opposite of that would be the first of a species. Hence the Biblical story of Adam, "In the beginling..." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:17, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, to be "in" the beginling, Eve would have to have been Bruce. :)  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  13:27, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The rib was in the beginling, and God took that rib and created Eve, just before nightfall, and neither God nor Man has rested since. (How's that for a medley of good humor?) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:32, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure the suffix dates back well before old English. One can find it, almost in the same usage, to words like Aetheling in the names of Old English and Norman royals such as Edgar the Ætheling and William Adelin where the word means "scion" or leading son of a notable family.  Historically, those two Aethelings, the most famous, were both heirs to the throne who tragically never inherited.-- Jayron  32  16:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Earthling is also found in Old English, where it meant a plowman, rather than any inhabitant of Earth. Angr (talk) 20:22, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, alien plowmen, eh? Must have been ploughing/plowing the Champs-Élysées or the Campus Martius.  :)  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  21:50, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Did they start their fires with kindling? HiLo48 (talk) 03:44, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What, use a small German child as fuel? That's a bit racist, isn't it.  Children of any nationality should be fair game as fire starters.  :)  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  05:56, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And then there is duckling and gosling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sesquepedalia (talk • contribs) 13:21, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Very funny, but kindling comes from the frequentative verb "to kindle" with the -ing ending, and has nuthin to do with burnin no chilluns. μηδείς (talk) 22:35, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * With only a little feeling those kindling could be chilling. But I'm prattling.—— Shakescene (talk) 03:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you to all who replied.

Based on some of the above, I surmised that the verb "suckle" may be a back-formation from "suckling", which is "suck" plus "-ling". Then I looked in OED, and it says that "Possibly" that's where that word came from. Michael Hardy (talk) 22:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I am surprised the OED would even say possibly. The -le ending marks frequentative verbs--verbs of repeated or extended actio--e.g., from suck (once) to suckle (repeatedly) as in game>gamble grunt>disgruntled.  If suckling came from suck-ling rather than suckle-ling it would mean a little suck, rather than a little sucker. μηδείς (talk) 21:42, 6 July 2011 (UTC)