Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 May 16

= May 16 =

Translation for film title
What is the best translation for the film title "一只狗的大学时光"?

Apparently it could be "The Only Dog of College Times" - But is there a better translation? WhisperToMe (talk) 02:56, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * You've got it a little backwards. It would be the college years of a (certain) dog. I'm not sure about a colloquial translation. "One dog's college years", maybe. (The Chinese doesn't say "years", but I think that's how you'd normally say it in English.) Or maybe "A dog's college life", "The college life of a dog", "One dog's time in college". — kwami (talk) 05:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I would go with "A dog's college days" or something like that. Your (Whisper's) confusion was due to the character 只, which is homophonous/homographous (is that even a word) with the character meaning "only" but in this case it is a classifier commonly used for small animals like dogs, cats, and birds. (In traditional characters I believe it would be written 隻 instead of 只, in which case there isn't the ambiguity.) r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 05:34, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, "days" sounds better. But for A dog's college days, wouldn't you normally just say 狗的大学时光? — kwami (talk) 05:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "狗的大学时光", without anything modifying the "dog", would be something like "college days of dogs", like a certain part of every dog's life, which doesn't quite make sense here. Without context, I might suspect it's about the college life of a person called (nicknamed) "Dog". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 05:59, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "A" can have that generic sense as well. I was thinking "one" would better convey a particular dog. But maybe it's too far the other direction? or doesn't 一只 have the connotation of a particular? — kwami (talk) 10:32, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That is true, "a" can be generic whereas "one" is more particular. But I think in this context it's sufficiently clear that we mean "of a *particular* dog", or at least just as much as the original? I think that "一只" isn't quite clearly "a particular" - that would be, say 某一只 or 那只. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 12:19, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think "The University Days of a Dog" or feels the most apt, because it's got that slight formality (compared to A Dog's College Days) present in the original title. No special objection to "College" except on variety of English grounds since in my particular variety "university" is the equivalent of 大学 and College means something else. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 05:55, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, guys! I will use The University Days of a Dog
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 13:29, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Brazilian Portuguese help
Hi! What would be the Brazilian Portuguese words for "Recovered" and "Unrecovered" as in the recovery or lack of recovery of a human corpse? What is "Storage"? And is "Cozinha" used for an aircraft galley?

It's for a translation of an Air France 447 seat map

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 13:49, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Self services ice cream machine
For the customers, should i put " After use, Pull the handle all the way up" Or "After you use it, pull the handle  all the way up" What is the correct wording?


 * The first one is in a better tone for written instructions. - file lake  shoe  15:35, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Except that the "P" should be lowercase. StuRat (talk) 16:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Neither is correct, because both are vague. Does the customer have to pull the handle up immediately after some operation is finished, or simply at some point in the indeterminate future? If you replace "after use" with a precise description of the condition requiring the handle to be pulled up, the problem will probably solve itself. Looie496 (talk) 16:46, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I think if you read the section header it's quite obvious what they mean. After you've filled the ice cream cone (by pushing the handle down), put the handle back to the top. Obviously immediately, since the customer then takes their ice cream cone and walks away. - file lake  shoe  16:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Also, if you make the instructions too long in the quest to eliminate all ambiguity, then nobody will read them, and the ice cream will continue to dribble out. StuRat (talk) 22:39, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Looie's version of a stop sign:


 * "Stop your vehicle's forward motion entirely, relative to the frame of reference of the Earth, unless you are in an emergency vehicle, and are current engaged in an emergency response. After your vehicle has fully stopped, you may proceed." :-) StuRat (talk) 22:42, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

[ʎ]
Hello all. I am learning Spanish and I cannot get the [ʎ] sound quite right. I usually realize it when I come across it as a [j] or [ʝ], which isn't too bad but I would really like to get it right since the distinction is made in the dialect of Spanish that I am learning. Your article seems to imply that the only difference between [ʎ] and [j] is that [ʎ] is lateral, with air flowing over the sides of the tongue, whereas [j] is central. I don't really understand how to pronounce a /j/ sound to make air flow off the sides of the tongue; can give tips on how to pronounce it? THanks. 72.128.95.0 (talk) 21:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It's probably best to start from the [lj] cluster found in English words like million. Basically [ʎ] is an [l]-sound produced with the blade of the tongue against the hard palate (i.e. a palatal consonant) instead of the tip of the tongue against the alveolar ridge (an alveolar consonant). If you try to compress [lj] into a single consonant instead of a cluster of two consonants, you'll be getting close to a proper [ʎ]. (For Spanish, as you mentioned, it's not really necessary to use [ʎ] for ll since increasing numbers of dialects use [j] or [ʝ] instead, but it's good to be able to make a [ʎ] anyway, in case you want to learn Italian, French, or Portuguese later.) —Angr (talk) 21:32, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * French? I wasn't aware that it was present in French.  What would be an example word? --Trovatore (talk) 23:33, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Fille, although in most accents [j] is preferred. - file lake  shoe  00:01, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Another way you might try is by making a [l] (which is a lateral you probably can do), and then curl the tip of your tongue forward so that rather the tip being on the alveolar ridge, the middle is sort of resting on the palate a bit further back. Or make a [j] and raise your tongue so that it's touching the top of your mouth. Both of those will get you close enough. - file lake  shoe  22:07, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What accent are you learning? In Spain the [ʎ] has all but disappeared in recent times, though you can still hear it in rural areas of Extremadura. --Belchman (talk) 23:30, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Just looking at this discussion, [ʎ] seems to be one of those sounds which gets bullied out of languages. In Slovak I swear I very seldom hear native speakers pronounce it.. they seem to replace it with a dark [l] or [w] (like a Polish Ł). Is there any language where it's actually a phoneme in relation to sounds next to it? - file lake  shoe  00:05, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In Polish, [w] replaced [ɫ] (dark l, represented by <ł>), not [ʎ]. — Kpalion(talk) 19:26, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, Italian, apparently: take voglio ("I want") compared with volo  ("flight"). Lfh (talk) 10:08, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, voglio sounds very different from volo, but the more interesting question is whether it would be distinguished from *volio, if there were such a word (as far as I know there isn't). I think the rendering of the -gli- sound as [ʎʎ] is a little misleading; that may be the actual phonetics on the oscilloscope, but it's *perceived* more like [ʎj].  --Trovatore (talk) 19:45, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then, does maglia rhyme with Italia? In theory, no. In practice, I don't know! Lfh (talk) 20:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it's an off-rhyme. The [ʎ] sound is definitely used, at least in the area where I lived.  Whether it's used distinctively is another question; can't think of a real example of that. --Trovatore (talk) 20:53, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It's alive and well in Serbo-Croatian. It's not as healthy in Macedonian, despite having a separate letter for it (Љ). No such user (talk) 11:14, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


 * It's a very common sound in many Bantu languages where it is generally written "hl" and is followed by a vowel. Roger (talk) 11:08, 22 May 2011 (UTC)