Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 November 19

= November 19 =

The name Stavros
As far as I know, the Greek personal name Σταυρός (Stavros) comes from the term σταυρός, which originally means "stake" and has the root of the verb ἵστημι (stand), and it is used expecially in the Gospel language with the meaning of "cross" or "crucifix". Thus, I understand that this is a completely Christian name, analogous to many European surnames, e.g. Delacroix (Fr), de la Cruz (Sp), Croce (it). Is this correct? When was this personal name introduced?

I was a bit confused seeing a recent movie, Immortals, a story of mythologic argument, though almost completely invented and only vaguely inspired to the myth of Theseus. One of the character (the thief) is named Stavros: isn't this a curious carelessness? (Or perhaps, the idea of the choice of a modern name for the thief is, according to the myth of the golden age, to mean that only old guys were heroes, and modern ones are just weak corrupted humans? ;-) I dunno).--pm a 09:00, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


 * As our article indicates, the cross is an ancient symbol which has been used by numerous cultures (swastika in the Indus Valley Civilization, ankh as an Egyptian hieroglyph). It would then seem possible that the Greek name preceded the emergence of Christianity.  --Incognito.ergo.possum (talk) 10:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * However, only the Christian usage of the cross (so far as I'm aware - corrections welcomed) originates with a kind of (executioner's) stake - of those two examples, the swastika has traditionally been thought to derive from a sun symbol, and the ankh from the shape of a sandal strap, or from other decidedly non-stakelike objects) - so it's difficult to see why a pre-Christian Graecophone culture would name people after stakes.
 * It's true that one ancient Greek (and pre-Hellenic) form of cult object, the Xoanon (usually wooden, hence the name), was often stake-like in form, but one would expect that personal names derived from xoana* would allude to particular deities rather than one rather prosaic catch-all description.
 * (* The startling resemblance to 'Joanna' is a red herring, as that name derives via Greek from the Hebrew Yôḥānnāh meaning "God is gracious".)
 * As to the usage of Stavros in Immortals, I suggest that most viewers would be familiar with forms of aristocratic, royal, heroic or divine names from the putative period, so their application to the heroic, etc, characters in the film is appropriate: however, authentic period names of ordinary or low-life people would be unfamiliar (because we rarely read about such characters) and therefore jarring, so it was necessary to use an anachronistic but otherwise more appropriate name for the enslaved thief Stavros. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.55 (talk) 12:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The Lexicon of Greek Personal Names (i.e. ancient Greek names, not counting Christian Greeks), lists "Staurax" and "Staurakhios" as names, but they are not among the most frequent names. (Stauracius was later also the name of a Byzantine emperor, though.) Adam Bishop (talk) 15:39, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * To us Brits, Stavros only means one thing; Harry Enfield's Greek kebab shop owning character, with mangled English and a passion for the Arsenal. "Up the Arse!" was his catchphrase. Alansplodge (talk) 16:24, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought you were going to mention Ernst Stavro Blofeld. --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  20:16, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Name days in Greece links Stavros to Feast of the Cross on September 14. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 00:42, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks everybody for the nice links. (By the way, the last wiki link seems to relate Stavros to Steve, something that I also see here and there in the Internet and which seems quite wrong, as the latter name comes to another totally different Greek name, Stephanos, =crown ).--pm a 13:30, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Quran translation
Hey everyone, I'm trying to take part of the Quran but I'm not sure if I did it right. I'm trying to get "The disbelievers will say, 'This is a difficult Day.'" (Al-Qamar 54:8), which is only half of that ayah (I think that's the right word), which is "Racing ahead toward the Caller. The disbelievers will say..." The Arabic translation of Al-Qamar 54:8 is مُّهْطِعِينَ إِلَى الدَّاعِ ۖ يَقُولُ الْكَافِرُونَ هَٰذَا يَوْمٌ عَسِرٌ, but is "The disbelievers will say, 'This is a difficult Day'" the following in Arabic?

يَقُولُ الْكَافِرُونَ هَٰذَا يَوْمٌ عَسِرٌ

If not, what is the translation? Any help would be great! 174.93.63.116 (talk) 21:27, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Yup, that's the correct bit. The only difference in the translation is that the Arabic verb is not specifically marked as the future, but I suppose in context it would have to be taken that way. Adam Bishop (talk) 22:09, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


 * You might also find this interlinear Qur'an helpful for any similar things. IBE (talk) 07:13, 20 November 2011 (UTC)