Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 November 22

= November 22 =

Political saying - "One right up the bracket"
A few years ago an Australian Liberal party politician urged party members to give the opposition Labor party "One right up the bracket". This saying achieved some notoriety because of it's oddness and the way he said it, but no 'lay people' seemed to really know what he meant by it. A few days ago I heard on a serious radio interview a political commentator make a similar statement, something about some party getting "one up the bracket" (can't remember the details, but I think it was something about voters going against them). Does anyone know what this phrase might mean and its literal origins? --jjron (talk) 10:57, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has an article about everything! See Up the Bracket (apparently the debut album by British rock band The Libertines); "The title "Up the Bracket" alludes to the phrase used by British comedian Tony Hancock in Hancock's Half Hour, a slang term meaning a punch in the throat.". Alansplodge (talk) 11:09, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Some more detail here. The radio programme was written by Ray Galton and Alan Simpson, but the blog I've linked to suggests that it was earlier Cockney slang (not necessarily rhyming slang).  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:16, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, brilliant, that could be it. And the fact it links back to Hancock, Sid James, and that era of British comedy is even better; could only have been improved by a direct link to Frankie Howerd. :) Yeah, can't really see the actual origin of it though, slang terms usually develop somehow, though that could be lost; would be nice to know that. Thanks. --jjron (talk) 14:01, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * A purely WP:OR thought that I haven't seen referenced anywhere - if it was originally Cockney rhyming slang, it could have derived from "bracket and hinge" = .  No evidence for that, though (and apologies to those of a sensitive disposition).  See also Hinge and Bracket. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:18, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, 'one up the bracket and hinge' ('one up the minge') would kind of make more sense, suggesting that the 'punch in the throat' translation may be a later sanitised version of its true meaning (not that 'bracket and hinge' means much to me, but maybe it's a common term in some location, dialect, or time period). --jjron (talk) 14:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Re the sanitisation - my thoughts entirely. "Bracket and hinge" seems a quite widely used word pairing.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:03, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If this OR is right, I love the convolutions in this. A sanitisation of an abbreviated version of a peculiar Cockney rhyming slang term for another vulgar slang term, then taken and used forty years later for political purposes in a country on the other side of the world... Thanks for your input. --jjron (talk) 22:36, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * A couple of forum posts about the phrase: and  Bluap (talk) 00:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You are seriously overthinking this. "Bracket mug" is a documented 19th century English slang term for "ugly face". The expression ""Bracket-faced" meaning "ugly, hard-featured" is attested to by the dictionary of "buckish slang" dated 1811. "Up the bracket [face]" means "hit someone in his ugly face".--Itinerant1 (talk) 03:04, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

'I always wanted a Harley with hot, tight mahatmas'
What's that? Harley is, from context, clearly the famous motorcycle. But, 'hot, tight mahatmas.'?88.8.74.46 (talk) 12:49, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a line from It's Kind of a Funny Story (film), and I think it's intended as just nonsense. Looie496 (talk) 15:59, 22 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll link to the article on "mahātmā", and also to the one on the most famous "Mahatma" in the Western world (Gandhi), but I can't say if the usage in the quote derives from either of them. -- 71.35.113.131 (talk) 17:26, 22 November 2011 (UTC)


 * If I had to guess, I'd say it was a variation of "hot mamas", possibly of Indian descent. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:32, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there any part of a Harley that rhymes with Gandhi? I know it's a US film, but they may be using a form of rhyming slang.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  20:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Mahatma Ghandi is rhyming slang for brandy and shandy, but neither of those would seem to make sense in this context. Does anyone know the context the quote was used in the movie? Do they definitely say Mahatmas? Every time I look at this question I keep wondering whether it is perhaps something like mamacita instead. --jjron (talk) 22:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * We don't really do rhyming slang in the US. Marco polo (talk) 02:50, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Extended quote, according to online subtitles:


 * In context, seems like it's some kind of euphemism. There aren't many things that could be described as "hot and tight" and the most common of them are too graphic to be named on screen in a PG-13 movie. Maybe it would make more sense if we knew what they were looking at. --Itinerant1 (talk) 02:52, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Well reading the full quote, it does sound like a straight euphemism. Not exactly a reliable source, but Urban Dictionary gives it's No 3 definition for Harley as "The most beautiful girl on the face of the Earth", mahatmas would obviously be breasts (don't know why though), and beaver would have it's usual slang meaning. 'Bike' would then also be being used as a substitute for woman, or in the guise of it's usual slang meaning, but conveniently creating a nice loop back to Harley to make it seem to reference Harley Davidson motorbikes to keep it sounding PG13. --jjron (talk) 11:27, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * You may be on to something here. A Harley is something you ride, and "to ride" has an obvious second meaning. Johnny wants to have a "Harley", with hot, tight "mahatmas" (which would probably be buttocks, not breasts). Then the rest of the quote makes perfect sense. But I still fail to see why mahatmas are buttocks.--Itinerant1 (talk) 12:15, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Why is beaver a slang for vagina? No reason, its slang, and sometimes slang is specifically chosen to be as obfuscatory and nonsensical as possible.  -- Jayron  32  01:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, come on. "Beaver" is slang for the whole (unshaven) female pubic area, not just the vagina, because of a fancied resemblance to that furry critter (OK, it's not all that striking), and in consequence the term "split beaver" refers to a view of the pubic area with parted labia, supposedly resembling a beaver that has been split lengthways with an axe. Isn't male sexual metaphor wonderful? And no, I'm not going to g**gle for references! {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.23 (talk) 02:26, 24 November 2011 (UTC)