Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 October 5

= October 5 =

Edge
Etymollogically, how did the phrase 'have the edge on or over someone or something' become to have the meaning 'to have an advantage over them'? Analphil (talk) 10:21, 5 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Only a guess: the first part of anything to make an appearance when seen emerging from behind another thing is virtually by definition its "edge". In this use, I think, edge implies a very slight distinction, but of course a distinction that can have a degree of significance. Bus stop (talk) 10:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The OED says "e.  to have an (or the) edge on         ,  to get the edge on     (and similar phrases with over): to have a grudge against (quot. 1896); to have (or acquire) an advantage over. Also used without a following on or over in sense ‘advantage, superiority’. orig. U.S.". It doesn't give any more specific etymology for this meaning, but I think the sequence "grudge" -> "advantage" is implied. --ColinFine (talk) 18:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I would think the "edge" is more likely to be the sharpness of a weapon, but the phrase does seem to be of recent (exactly 100 years for this sense in the OED) American origin. I can't see how older meanings of "edge" (including stimulation, ardour, and sharpness of eyesight) could lead to grudge and advantage.    D b f i r s   21:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

French help - "Slashed themselves"
Hi! How do you say: "slashed themselves with razors to protest perceived violations of their rights" in French? I'm working on fr:Utilisateur:WhisperToMe/Prison de Lgov and I just have three more sentences to go Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 16:57, 5 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Until a native speaker comes along and gives you something better, how about this: "Ils se sont entaillés les veines avec des lames de rasoir, afin de protester des empiétements présumés sur leurs droits". Adam Bishop (talk) 21:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Adam! I'll use the sentence in the article, and hopefully a native speaker will take a look at it :) WhisperToMe (talk) 02:23, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * As a French native speaker I would say: ils se sont tailladés avec des rasoirs pour protester contre ce qu'ils considéraient être des violations de leurs droits. (s'entailler les veines: to slash one's wrists; lame de rasoir: razor blade; empiètement is too weak as a translation for violation). — AldoSyrt (talk) 08:04, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * @WhisperToMe: On the French Wiki page "Prison de Lgov", des must follow 2005. En juin 2005, des centaines de prisonniers.... — AldoSyrt (talk) 16:06, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Varieties of Spanish
My niece is taking Spanish lessons, her teacher is Cuban. Is Cuban Spanish acceptable for "tourist use" in countries like Spain or Argentina? Are there any pitfalls or peculiarities one needs to be aware of. Roger (talk) 17:55, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Just because her teacher is Cuban doesn't mean she's learning Cuban Spanish. If she's learning the language in a formal setting, he's likely following a curriculum that teaches a fairly culture-neutral form of Spanish (see Standard Spanish).  It would be unusual for a class to formally teach a non-standard dialect of a language.  In my life, I've never had a French teacher from France.  I had Americans, a French Canadian, and an Maghreb French native teachers, but they all taught Standard Academy French, and not their native dialect.  I would expect that your neice isn't learning Cuban Spanish per se, though there may be some subtle accent things going on, the grammar and syntax isn't likely to be Cuban Spanish.  -- Jayron  32  19:16, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I've had Spanish teachers from El Salvador, Ecuador, Chile, Spain... They all taught the same thing, but with different accents. You could really hear the accent of the Spanish one, especially since he was from somewhere in Galicia. I also had an American non-Hispanic white teacher, but she was really bad. 80.122.178.68 (talk) 22:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that if your niece's teacher is competent, she is teaching Standard Spanish, but Spanish, much like English, has two main standards: one based on standard usage in the Americas and another based on standard usage in Europe. The two standards are mutually comprehensible, but there are some differences in pronunciation, pronoun use, and verbal inflections related to pronouns and person.  Latin American Spanish has, in effect, a slightly reduced set of phonemes and inflectional endings for verbs.  The only difficulty your niece may encounter is in dealing with national varieties of Spanish that depart from the Latin American standard.  Argentine Spanish has a few distinctive pronunciations and second-person forms that might challenge your niece at first.  Castilian Spanish (the main variety of Spanish spoken in Spain) would be a little more challenging, though the Spanish spoken in parts of Andalusia has a pronunciation closer to the Latin American than the European standard.  If your niece plans to spend time in Spain or Argentina, she might want to spend some time before her trip listening to audio (e.g., podcasts) from those two countries.  Marco polo (talk) 15:54, 6 October 2011 (UTC)