Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 September 22

= September 22 =

Freshman, sophmore, junior, senior
Why does the US use these naming high school/college/university students for their years? The articles for each don't really explain why, just what they mean. Mingmingla (talk) 04:20, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The "Straight Dope Science Advisory Board" has this to say on the subject: . It starts out explaining just the origin of the term sophomore, but does go into the rest of the class names, their origins and how they came into use.  -- Jayron  32  05:43, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * According to the Oxford English Dictionary similar terms were used as early as 1688 at Cambridge. The terms there were "Fresh Men", "Sophy Moores", "Junior Soph", and "Senior Soph" Sophomore . Freshman is the oldest of the terms to be used in the current sense. 'fresh-man' was used at Cambridge as early as 1550 Freshman . As for the the United States, "sophomores" was used in 1726 at Harvard, and 'junior' and 'senior' were used at least as early as 1766 to refer to students of lesser and greater seniority, though the terms were not yet attached to specific years. Of course, none of this can explain exactly why these terms are used, but it makes it clear that they have a long history! Mr. Kalish (talk) 16:55, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Studying English
Im an student from Iran and Im studying english language. I would like to continue my education on master degree at your university but Im not sure wether you have this major at your university or not? Do you have it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.133.149.94 (talk) 18:11, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * We haven't got a university. We are Wikipedia, an international encyclopaedia. Many universities in Britain (and I suspect elsewhere in the English speaking world) have courses in English, but I think that at Master's level they will generally be courses in English Literature. There may be some departments that are more linguistics-oriented which will do a Master's. What are you hoping to study at that level?
 * You could try List of universities and colleges by country, and investigate some universities that seem attractive to you. --ColinFine (talk) 19:13, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * As the others said, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a university. Please see Introduction, or in Persian, ویکی‌پدیا:آشنایی با ویرایش در ویکی‌پدیا. Once you find a university that you would like to attend, you can look at its website. Examples: University of Illinois, University College London, University of Tehran. Lesgles (talk) 19:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * See English Schools Worldwide - Guide to English Language Schools & ESL Programs
 * and ESL Links - Learning English.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 01:51, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The questioner might be thinking of Wikiversity, which does have an English language division. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:02, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Hungarian Translation
I would not normally ask this, being a translator myself - because I understand the amount of work involved. But, can anyone translate this song for me? I'd like the original Hungarian and a translation into English, if possible. My Hun mate said he would do it, but he has been busy with work (primary school teacher, and needs to make his own materials). Cheers. KägeTorä - (影虎) ( TALK )  23:37, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't speak Hungarian but this page seems to have the original Hungarian lyrics.--Cam (talk) 00:31, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Cheers, that gets me half way there. I could use Google Translate (which is being discontiuned in a couple of months), but I would prefer a proper translation. Cheers, though.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  02:23, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it's not being discontinued. Only the API was going to be discontinued, but they decided against that as well. See Google Translate. --jpgordon:==( o ) 03:29, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, from what I heard the whole schmoogle was getting binned, as there were too many idiots offering 'alternative translations' for things and it was costing them too much sorting the chaff from the wheat, because the human propensity to do bollocks is right up there at the 100% mark, when you add interntet anonymity. Google! Thought you guys needed at least some sort of ability to think in common sense. Anyway, this is not relevant to my question.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  03:42, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Google translate is most definitely not being discontinued, it's eaxctly as jpgordon says. --99.113.32.198 (talk) 04:44, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

"carpet" vs. "carpets"
When I was growing up, we always used "carpet", the way fabrics are generally referred to (as non-countable substances); so it never had a plural "s" at the end. Eg. Wool, silk, and denim, which never have a plural "s", unless one is describing several different types (as in, "Various denims have different care requirements").

Sometime since my childhood (possibly due to internet access) I started noticing an increased use of "carpets". By my understanding, this is only technically correct if specifically referring to carpet segments that consist of different carpet types. However, this practice appears to be much more universally applied, with "carpets" replacing "carpet" whenever it's the object of a sentence (though not as a descriptor, as in "carpet cleaning"), since carpet can be said to be always plural.

Again, according to my understanding, if carpet is correctly referred to as a fabric (or substance, think linoleum or ceramic), then this is wrong, and more than 1 segment of the same type would still be referred to without the "s". Am I crazy or is this one of those grammar mistakes that caught on and is now widespread? References would be great (since I can't find them, and everyone grows up hearing stuff they assume is correct). Thanks in advance. Equazcion ( talk ) 23:37, 22 Sep 2011 (UTC)


 * It depends on whether the word "carpet" is being used as a count noun or a mass noun. If it would be possible to refer to a single floor covering as "a carpet" as in "I have a carpet in my living room and another carpet in my bedroom.  Therefore I have two carpets.", would be a grammatically correct usage (replace "carpet" with "rug" and it works as well).  I don't think carpet is a word like "fish" or "moose" which are count nouns that don't take modified plurals, instead I think it is a normally mass noun (referring to "carpet" as a fabric like "denim", as you say) which can also refer to discrete objects in a slightly different sense (i.e. a floor covering made of carpet is called a carpet).  -- Jayron  32  23:54, 22 September 2011 (UTC)