Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 August 2

= August 2 =

Siyahamba in German and Italian
Does anyone know, or can anyone with actual proficiency in the languages make a good guess at, the lyrics to Siyahamba in German and Italian? 86.161.208.94 (talk) 19:50, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * There don't appear to be any 'official', or even amateur, translations available on the net. But, for German, this should work:
 * Wir marschieren in Gottes Licht
 * Wir marschieren in Gottes Licht
 * Wir marschieren in Gottes Licht
 * Wir marschieren in Gottes Licht [in Gottes Licht]
 * Wir marschieren... Ja! [wir marschieren, marschieren, wir marschieren, marschieren]
 * Wir marschieren in Gottes Licht [in Gottes Licht]
 * Wir marschieren... Ja! [wir marschieren, marschieren, wir marschieren, marschieren]
 * Wir marschieren in Gottes Licht
 * Roughly, this is pronounced 'Veer Marsh-Ear-Un in Gott-us Licked'. To make it fit the music, I suggest lengthening 'marschieren' - i.e. 'Marsh-Eeeeeeeear-Un'. This uses a literal translation of 'we are marching'. If you want 'we are walking', that would be 'wir gehen in Gottes Licht' - I don't think that fits the tune so well. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 13:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Three quick comments: 'marschieren' is connoted heavily with military operations wherefore going/gehen might be more appropriate for a protest song. Even for a 'Protestmarsch'. Secondly I think it would be more ideomatic to translate as 'wir gehen mit Gottes Licht' as it removes a possible directional component (e.g. We go into Gods light). Thirdly: Licht is pronounced with the x sound (as Scottish Loch). There is no k in there. Your --Abracus (talk) 16:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * More quick comments: There are several German idiomatic translations wir laufen unter Gottes Licht, but some German choirs prefer to sing it in English, like here, where they replace marching by living for a German-speaking audience (for marching sounds awkward, not because of the military connotation, but because of a silly similarity to Matsching. Hear Das Licht (pronunciation lɪçt) (from de:wikt:Licht). --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 17:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The original Afrikaans is: Ons marsjeer nou in die lig van God, so I don't think there's any problem with marschieren. μηδείς (talk) 17:05, 3 August 2012 (UTC)


 * All very good points Abracus. I would defend myself on the pronunciation by saying that for most native English speakers 'licked' is about as close as we can get to 'licht' - I was just trying to approximate the pronunciation for easy singing by a non German. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:15, 3 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Pardon my IPA-misstep. Of course it's an Ich, not an Ach-Laut. It seems I need to review transliteration. As for Medeis agument: While Afrikaans shares roots with German to a high degree and is to some extent intelligible, especially for people who know Lower-Saxon dialects, my argument was based on connotations. As these may diverge even over the dialect spectrum I felt my point was warranted - despite the fact that the Afrikaans can be directly translated to marschieren --Abracus (talk) 22:22, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Bear in mind that even though the Zulu version is arguably the most widely known it it not the original. It is in fact a translation of the original Afrikaans - which was not composed as a protest song. Roger (talk) 11:19, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Refer oneself by given name
Just curious, Chinese in the old days refer themselves by given name (It is a way of modesty), are there any other culture also call themselves by given name/first name?--刻意(Kèyì) 20:07, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * See Illeism for a short article on the practice in general. -- Jayron  32  20:11, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It is sometimes used in Japanese in place of the first person pronoun "I", but generally between husband and wife, or boyfriend and girlfriend, or by small kids. In this case, however, it is not to show humility, but rather familiarity. It's considered kawaii speech.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  10:43, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I've only ever noticed it in an elderly Afrikaner woman with very poor education and a history of schizophrenia. The old lady habitually spoke of herself in the third person using her own name. If a listener didn't know her name they would get the impression she was talking about someone else. In cultures and languages that don't normally have this phenomenon, can it be related to mental illness or an identity disorder? Roger (talk) 11:12, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, in English, it could be a sign of a mental disorder, but it is sometimes used, but with the opposite intention of the OP's question. A teacher could say "OK, your teacher is about to perform an experiment. Watch very carefully." This is not humility, this is "All eyes on me". Similarly, when 'talking down' to small kids, one's own name can be used. It can also be used for dramatic/comic effect at parties, etc., when one might say, "Right, John will do a card trick".  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  11:27, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * When I was 8, I overheard a coeval friend's mother say "Mommy doesn't want you to do that" to him. Even at that tender age I found it annoying and was glad that my mother referred to herself in the first person. It never occurred to me that it might have been a sign of a mental disorder, though. Angr (talk) 15:33, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have never heard nor seen the word 'coeval' before. I assumed you meant 'co-evil'. :)  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  05:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * We were both eight years old, so I'm sure we were co-evil in addition to being coeval. Angr (talk) 07:04, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * See wiktionary.org - coeval. Not common coinage in the UK at least, but maybe deserves to be used more often. Alansplodge (talk) 11:17, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * In The Hidden Fortress, it seemed to me (with my negligible understanding of Japanese) that the princess used her title (hime) as a pronoun for herself. —Tamfang (talk) 05:22, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It is frequently used in Thai language. Of course, Thais have two names: They have their legal name (which is long, with Sanskrit roots), which isn't used in this way, and their short (usually single-syllable nickname) that can be used instead of a pronoun. Usually only by girls in informal contexts. V85 (talk) 23:30, 6 August 2012 (UTC)