Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 February 12

= February 12 =

Medieval Latin help - "cows" or "cattle"
I have a Medieval Latin primary source which states that someone revcieved twenty animals as compensation for services rendered. I've only been able to come up with two really simple English 'translations'. One (1946 - American) says 'twenty cows', and another (1875 - British) says 'twenty head of cattle'. Normally I'd go with the more recent translation, but I wonder if the person considered that all cattle were 'cows' (regardless whether they were male or female). You know? How should I describe this record? Does it refer to female cows or just cattle in general? The Latin appears on this page, see halfway down, or 15th line down, where it starts at the end of the line: "Item Ker-mac macmaghan ..." If it's just cattle in general, I'd prefer to go with 'twenty head of cattle'. Would that be OK?--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 11:33, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It says pro viginti vaccis. Vacca = "cow", unambiguously. The 1946 translation (or summary?) is correct. Iblardi (talk) 11:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * OK thanks Iblardi.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:27, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

General American accent: Is the "t" in "beat me", "look at me", and likewise, pronounced as a glottal stop?
Additionally, does the General American accent have the consonant cluster /tm/? 77.124.250.150 (talk) 16:17, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Phonemically, and in very careful pronunciation, the cluster /tm/ occurs in contexts such as the ones you have cited. However, in unselfconscious speech, the cluster is pronounced [ʔm] (with a glottal stop) in most if not all varieties of American English.  Marco polo (talk) 16:32, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "At me" can't actually occur unless you have a possessive me. Anyway, I pronounce as [bɪt̚ˀ‿mi], not exactly a glottal stop. Inter  change  able | talk to me  01:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Throw the ball at me? 75.41.110.200 (talk) 01:25, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you mad at me? Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 02:30, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect you haven't got a GA accnet. Do you make a distinction between cot and caught? I suspect you don't (if you had made such a distinction, you would have reflected it in your new transcriptional system of English - which you have recently presented here) . Additionally, how about beat me (about which I've directly asked)? Anyways, I can't figure out your comment about at me: Look at me again, and see what I mean. 77.124.250.150 (talk) 02:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I pronounce and exactly the same, [kɒt]. And sorry about . I suppose the whole desk is laughing at me now. Inter  change  able | talk to me  17:54, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's looking at you, kid.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  19:46, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * See unreleased stop. 96.46.204.126 (talk) 20:18, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm GA as far as I know, and when I say those phrases quickly it certainly feels like I'm articulating orally rather than glottally. —Tamfang (talk) 17:44, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe you articulate it without releasing it? 77.124.250.150 (talk) 10:43, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure I do. What has that to do with the OQ? —Tamfang (talk) 07:14, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Hochunk Native American
How do I write happy birthday in Hochunk?--Brendawilber (talk) 21:55, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You have better chances asking at wiktionary. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 22:34, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You could ask at who are trying to save the language. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 01:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Being democratic or being pro Democratic Party
Can both meanings get confused in English? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.9.110.42 (talk) 23:00, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Unlikely. A party supporter is usually labeled a Democrat, not democratic. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:52, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Like Clarityfiend said, we usually use "Democrat" to refer to someone who supports the Democratic party; I think we do use "Democratic", though, to refer to a politician who is a member of the party (e.g., "The Democratic junior senator from Somewhere..."). But we would always capitalize it in that case. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 23:58, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * But, in spoken language capitalization won't solve this ambiguity. And what if you ask someone: "are you a D/democrat?" Would this sentence be both correct grammatically and ambiguous? 88.8.72.184 (talk) 01:07, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I've seen it said as "He's a big D Democrat" or "He's a small d democrat". StuRat (talk) 05:00, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * In the USA, everyone is assumed to be a "democrat" in some sense, i.e. a believer in rule by the people, so that question doesn't get asked. It would be like asking, "Are you a human?" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:36, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, no; some sincere American conservatives (including several of our active editors) would strenuously deny being democrats, arguing that they are much happier with the republican government intended by the Founding Fathers. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  01:41, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Reasonable point, but they are still most likely democratic republicans, meaning they want a republic run by popular sovereignty. Some libertarians, like me, are philosophical anarchists in principle, but still mostly democrats in practice.  --Trovatore (talk) 02:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * It's grammatical and, especially during this seemingly endless current election campaign, pretty much understood to be about party affiliation. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:40, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Unlikely for the U.S., but more plausible in countries with a Democratic Party and a patchy record of democracy. In such a case, it wouldn't be self-evident whether a D/democrat was broadly in favour of democracy or a party supporter. Warofdreams talk 17:26, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think it is necessarily the case that somebody in a longstanding democratic society wouldn't call themselves a democrat (meaning 'supporter of democracy'). Different people have very different ideas of what constitutes democracy, and some might consider that the current US (or wherever) government is not democratic, or they might consider other popular ideologies to be undemocratic (for example, it seems to be somewhat common for Americans to say they support a republic, but not a democracy - meaning they support some form of representative democracy but not direct democracy).  I have certainly heard people here in the UK expressing their opposition to any form of democracy, as well.  However, there is probably more room for confusion with the word 'republican' - an American Republican, a British Republican, and an Irish Republican would probably support very different ideas - and at least in the UK, they might all simply be described as a 'republican', with the sense implied by the context. 130.88.73.65 (talk) 14:38, 15 February 2012 (UTC)