Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 June 18

= June 18 =

Another neologism please?
Hi, all - I'm writing a story where there's an infectious language - a pathogenic language - transmitted between unprotected bilbiographies, infecting footnotes like tinea etc etc - but I haven't been hit with that aha! moment I need to come up with a nice name for it - if anyone can provide some help, I'd be most appreciative - something scientific in tone preferably... Thank you Adambrowne666 (talk) 05:26, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't Neal Stephenson already do this with the Me-s and En-s? Current infectious language elements are subsumed under "meme" broadly.  The concept of "mindworm" from "earworm" is also relevant. Fifelfoo (talk) 05:29, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know about En-s, but the Me-s are a real concept in Ancient Near Eastern religious thought. They're not a pathogenic language, but rather a kind of reified super-meme, transmitting all there is to know about some crucial aspect of civilisation, such as irrigation or blowjobs. (I'm not kidding. Both real examples from ancient texts.) AlexTiefling (talk) 08:36, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * O.K., now I want to know about the Me-s. Can you provide a reference?  Is there something about these online or in Ancient Near Eastern Texts?  John M Baker (talk) 14:13, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * WHAAOE: Me (mythology), as well as the less informative EN (cuneiform). The suggestion that one of the mes represents fellatio is apparently made (according to my partner, an ANES grad) in connection with the story of Inanna and the mes. AlexTiefling (talk) 14:37, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Our article links to this version of Inanna's story. Sexual intercourse, kissing, and prostitution are among the mes, but I don't see anything about blowjobs.  The first four lines are pretty striking, though.  The Sumerians seem to have had a lot of focus on female genitalia.  John M Baker (talk) 13:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * This being a Reference Desk, does anybody feel like providing a link for Neal Stephenson doing this with the Me-s and En-s? Because while it sounds intriguing, I have no idea what it means. 46.208.135.205 (talk) 09:01, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The novel Snow Crash employs references to them in its backstory, as I recall. AlexTiefling (talk) 09:03, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * In David Brin's "Uplift" universe, there's an episode called the "Revolt of the Data", when information on historical groups and movements starts taking over the computers where it's stored in order to implement the ideologies of these groups. That's one reason why the early history of the Uplift universe is only rather sketchily known... AnonMoos (talk) 09:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think my idea is more similar to Brin's than Stephenson's - it also recalls the informational infection that overtakes the extragalactic city in Vernor Vinge's FIRE UPON THE DEEP - it's a bit of a trope in sf, as I knew when writing it. The Me language is very interesting, but it's infected the conversation here - maybe it is the pathogenic language after all... As for my original request, I'm hoping for something maybe with greek/latin affixes/roots - or not - maybe even like a binomial species name - or not - a witty diseaseish name would meet with the greatest favour - a pun, a wordplay? Something? Adambrowne666 (talk) 00:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Brin apparently calls the general phenomenon "memnetic plagues". "Memosis" could sound like a disease.  By the way, I don't know all that much about ancient Mesopotamian foundation myths, but everything Canaanite/Biblical was handled in an extremely stupid way in "Snow Crash" (it was painfully evident that Stephenson had barely any idea of what he was talking about). AnonMoos (talk) 05:33, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Stephenson's trademark is a kind of stupid awesome, let me tell you about the problems in his conceptualisation of early modern capitalism… Fifelfoo (talk) 05:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It's awesome and preposterous all at once. His recreation of 17th-century London is extremely vivid, his grasp of European politics in the same era isn't bad - but the bits about sailing around the world might as well have been about spaceships. It seems cool, but it didn't evoke reality in any way whatsoever. (His grasp of cryptography, of all things, turned out not to be so great after all.) AlexTiefling (talk) 07:30, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The ancient Greeks and Romans didn't have footnotes, so one would need to look later for word elements. The Modern Greek for a footnote is apparently ὑποσημείωση, so one might coin hyposemiosis. Morbus bibliographicus and morbus annotationum might be other possibilities. Deor (talk) 12:47, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Logorrhea is already a word for something else, unfortunately, though I'm sure you could get away with something like logorrheic fever. Simply combining prefixes related to books/words/notes/etc. with suffixes related to disease (or vice versa), you might use something like citatirrhosis, or liberoscoliosis, or bibliomyelitis (the latter describing something that would also cause nerve/circuit damage in humans or data storage media). These work best when the disease suffix bears some relation, even metaphorical, to what effect this infection actually has on the text/computer/reader. You may also be best off combining multiple words, one for the vector (transmission) and one for the effects of the infection.  For example, logophilic sclerosis, translexical liberdementia, transnotational lexicosis, Shakespeare-Einstein transcitational gonorrhea (named after the first "patients," heh as well as their "same-shelf relationship" )... this is actually fun, fertile ground to play on, coinage-wise. Have at it!   ☯.Zen  Swashbuckler  .☠  15:29, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * They're great, thanks! I'll stir them around in the bony pot of my braincase and see what bobbles up to the surfaceAdambrowne666 (talk) 00:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

word said in French
How is the word iceberg said in French?24.90.195.33 (talk) 05:56, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Roughly the same as in English, but with a French accent: /ajs.bɛʁɡ/. V85 (talk) 06:46, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * More commonly (by people around me) /is.bɛʁɡ/ (French Wiktionnaire here) — AldoSyrt (talk) 12:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC).

male scent
I only but rarely smell this scent among men. I personally find it unpleasant (apology to all men here). This scent is so strong and I suspect this is a natural scent which is released from their body. This scent is different from body odor. It is not also something I smell from men with sweaty clothes after playing sports. Sorry I can't find a word to describe this scent anymore. What is this scent called? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.240.243.100 (talk) 07:03, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Musk ? StuRat (talk) 07:14, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Stu, the muskrat? :)  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  08:32, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * In reference to humans, I think "musky" is used more often than plain "musk"... AnonMoos (talk) 08:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, you can either say "He has a strong musk" or "He smells musky". StuRat (talk) 01:21, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably better to be "musky" than "musty". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:54, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmmm... This article: The Smell Report: Sexual attraction says, "The male pheromone androstenone is not the same as androstenol. Androstenol is the scent produced by fresh male sweat, and is attractive to females. Androstenone is produced by male sweat after exposure to oxygen – i.e. when less fresh – and is perceived as highly unpleasant by females (except during ovulation, when their responses change from ‘negative’ to ‘neutral’)." There you have it. Alansplodge (talk) 16:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

There are different scents called musk associated with men and women. I'll refrain from any other comments than to note that both are highly (arggghhhh) noticeable. And I would never call anyone "musky". That is a term for odors as such, not people. μηδείς (talk) 01:19, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * In the UK in the 1970s, there was a TV advert, for Lifebuoy (soap) I think, in which a chap failed to chat up a girl until his best friend whispered "B.O." (ie "body odour") in his ear. After a quick shower, his prospects improved no end. Alansplodge (talk) 12:37, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * That old term "B.O." was associated with Lifebuoy at least as far back as the 1930s, when, in keeping with their vaguely nautical theme, they would have a foghorn sound out, "BEEE OOOH". Or this, from 1944, about 1 minute in. (For extra credit, which old-time radio actor is the dog imitating in that cartoon?) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:54, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The same commercial ran in the uS, but they didn't have British accents. Body odor is a broader phenomenon than just musk, of course. μηδείς (talk) 17:01, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Whereas, in France, that hint might have meant that he needed more BO, so he'd go for a jog, avoiding hygiene scrupulously. :-) StuRat (talk) 17:16, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I've just noticed (by looking a my own link) that we have an article called Body odour. Alansplodge (talk) 12:39, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Languages of Luxembourg
Which district of Luxembourg speaks German due to significant population of ethnic German population and which district of Luxembourg speaks French due to significant ethnic French population? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.152.234 (talk) 14:09, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * We have an article; Languages of Luxembourg but it doesn't mention geographical distribution. However, Multilingualism in Luxembourg says; "In many other multilingual countries, such as Belgium, Switzerland or Canada, the distribution of the languages is geographic, but in Luxembourg it is functional — that is, the choice of language depends on the situation." Alansplodge (talk) 16:26, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That statement is supported by this article: Gerd Jendrasche, "A graphic representation of language distribution in multilingual societies" (paragraph 4.1) "All native Luxembourgers have Luxembourgish, a West-Germanic language, as their first language. The traditional elite language in Luxembourg is French. French is therefore the preferred language for the most formal situations. However, as good command of French requires substantial educational efforts for a Germanic-speaking population, the majority generally prefers German for reading and writing. Until recently, Luxembourgish was basically an oral variety and therefore absent from most formal contexts." Alansplodge (talk) 16:50, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Not sure why this is being asked again -- it was asked less than a week ago [[Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2012_June_12#German_and_French_Luxembourg|

on the Humanities desk]]... -- AnonMoos (talk) 21:07, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it would help if at least some of this information was in our "Languages of Luxembourg" article, which is oddly silent about the issue. I'll try to find the time to put it in, but perhaps somebody who knows something about it might make a better fist of it. Alansplodge (talk) 12:31, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Chhandas(Poetic metres) in hindi
Are there Chhandas(poetic metres)in Hindi Language as in Sanskrit language? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.244.86.80 (talk) 15:33, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Admittedly, I am not very familiar with Hindi, but it would seem that there are. Some examples are Dohaa, Chaupaayee, Savaiyaa, Sorathaa and Kundaliyaan. Just having done a very rudimentary search for resources, it seems Hindi Chhands are based on Sanskrit meters.  Here are some links I found interesting:


 * Why Meter Matters: Reading 20th Century Hindi Poetry from the Perspective of Metrical Structure, University of Texas, Austin
 * Dundes, Alan. Some Characteristics of Hindi Riddle Prosody. University of California, Berkeley

Hope this gives you a starting place from which to do further searches/inquiries.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 19:11, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Ainu names
Where can I find a list of Ainu girl names with their meanings? (It's for a story.) --108.227.31.151 (talk) 17:09, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Try googling "Ainu stories" and then searching the texts for female names. You probably won't get meanings but you can then at least have names to search further from. μηδείς (talk) 17:49, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * See here http://www.sacred-texts.com/shi/aft/aft.htm which mentions the goddess Turesh. You can also always use words like "grandmother" or Ape-Huci-Kamuy (List of Ainu terms) as names. μηδείς (talk) 21:34, 18 June 2012 (UTC)