Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 October 20

= October 20 =

Dramatic monologue
I was asked what are the primary characteristics of dramatic monologue and was given 5 choices. One of them is "The reader identified with the listener addressed in the poem" --> Which I don't understand what is the statement even saying? Please explain to me what is the meaning of it and point out to me in the way that anyone can understand. Thanks!184.97.240.247 (talk) 08:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 'To identify with' someone is to be able to put yourself in their position or role. So it's saying that the poem is written as though it's spoken to some (possibly specific person); the reader is able to put themselves in the position of that person.
 * To give a concrete example: The anthem 'O vos omnes' says (in translation)
 * All you who pass by upon the road -
 * Is it nothing to you?
 * Behold and see
 * If there be any sorrow
 * Which is like my sorrow.
 * These lines are from the Old Testament, and have been adapted for a Christian context several times. I would identify with the listener ('you who pass by upon the road') if the poem made me feel like a person who has been forcibly reminded of another's suffering, and turned back to consider it.AlexTiefling (talk) 08:12, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Compound word, but different
I'm looking for a term (which may not exist) for those compound words which are not just two nouns. NOT words like: Lighthouse or Bedroom. Rather, words like: altogether, always, albeit - I know that I chose three that include 'all' but my interest is for any words formed out of 2 (or more!) words that aren't just simple object-type of nouns. Is there a term for such words, or can someone point me to a list of such words?199.94.68.91 (talk) 14:56, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Basically you're asking for a term for a word composed of multiple morphemes, or perhaps of multiple lexemes. I don't think linguists have a standard term for those concepts, but "complex word" is sometimes used. Looie496 (talk) 17:04, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * No term whatsoever ? StuRat (talk) 16:20, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You are talking about compound words with bound morphemes as opposed to only free morphemes. I have never heard of a single term for this, but maybe Looie has a link to his complex word suggestion. μηδείς (talk) 18:13, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The article on English compound just classifies them according to the word classes of their components (including pairings of modifier and head such as adverb-preposition, preposition-preposition, etc.), but I saw no special word for those which are not noun-noun compounds. We do have a separate articles on compound verb and compound modifier too. ---Sluzzelin talk  18:36, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Chinese help
What is the Chinese in http://www.beijing-hyundai.com.cn/images/lxwm_02.jpg ? I'm trying to see if this is describing a corporate office WhisperToMe (talk) 20:46, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It says 销售本部, "Sales main office" or "sales HQ". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 22:50, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! WhisperToMe (talk) 00:20, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

IPA
How is the name "Conley" pronounced in English? --77.12.231.144 (talk) 21:25, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * In American English, at least, it would be like "Khan-Lee", stressing the "Khan", the "o" like saying "ah" when the doctor asks you to open up. IPA? I don't speak IPA. But if you know how it's pronounced as-is, you could theoretically figure out the IPA. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:43, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I would like to add the IPA to an article and it's a pretty cryptic knowledge. --77.12.231.144(talk) 21:56, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * [kɒnlɪ] or [kɒnliː] according to quasi-standard conventions (see footnote 24 at Help:IPA for English for the variation)...AnonMoos (talk) 22:06, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much! --77.12.231.144 (talk) 22:26, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * English Midlands: My friends who are Conleys use a very short o. I don't speak IPA either, but it's basically the word "con" + "lee".--TammyMoet (talk) 09:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * As a Londoner, I don't have the cot-caught merger, and I agree with TammyMoet. The first syllable of 'Conley' is very much not like 'Khan' to my ears. AlexTiefling (talk) 08:52, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Can someone explain to me what's difficult about going through Help:IPA for English and looking for each sound in "Conley" in turn? If I knew why people were finding this tricky I might have some idea about how the page could be improved. Marnanel (talk) 09:11, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I had a look and I don't find it very intuitive, but I put that down to me being a thick Brummie and not having a standard English accent. For example, I say the words start and palm with the same vowel in the middle, whereas the article has them different. That doesn't reflect what I say so it confuses me. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:04, 22 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Right on. I doubt that any variety of English pronounces "why" starting with a "hw" sound.  I'd think they were saying "Hawaii" quickly.  -  Jack of Oz   [Talk]  10:29, 22 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I can testify that my own variety of English sometimes pronounces 'wh' words with a 'hw' sound. Maybe not me myself, except when I'm trying to sound hyper-correct, but certainly my grandmother (who has spent her whole life in the London suburb in which I grew up) pronounces 'what', 'when' and 'whom' with a distinct 'hhfw' sound at the beginning. It's not quite 'hw', more a sort of a low whistle followed by a 'w' sound, but there's a definite distinction between 'weather' and 'whether'. I'm not quite sure what you'd call this accent, but (at least in my grandmother's version) 'years' and 'ears' are pronounced the same. Maybe it's RP. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:39, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've only come across it in Scottish speech. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:09, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The hw sound isn't actually found in who or whom, They simply begin with h.  You will indeed hear hw in New England and the US South, with hwy and hwut for "why" and "what".  My dialect doesn't have it.  I might actually have developed it though, since our elementary teachers insisted we pronounce it.  But, strangely enough, they didn't explain to us that the h preceded the w, the opposite of the spelling order.  I remember protesting vigorously that no one says "wə-hat" for what or "wə-hen" for when.  But the teachers themselves didn't usehw and they were insisting we use a standard the didn't use or even understand themselves. μηδείς (talk) 17:20, 22 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the planet called Earth.
 * The point is that (a) the "hw" sound is little known, and (b) using "why" as an example of it is confusing, given that most people don't pronounce the word that way. The footnote does not help, given that the page is supposed to be a helpful guide to making IPA easier for those who are already struggling with it.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  19:53, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have added what I hope is a partial clarification. But there is doubt there whether any clarification is actually needed, if anybody wants to comment. μηδείς (talk) 20:14, 24 October 2012 (UTC)