Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 October 27

= October 27 =

Sign at a Greek Orthodox church in the USA
If you go to this church and look at one of its signs up close (the one at the left edge of the front of the building in this picture, just to the right of the utility pole in the middle of the image), you'll see an unusual logo: ChiRho surrounded by the letters "ΤΟ ΔΕΡΗΜΑΚΥΡΙΟΥΜΕΝΕΙΕΙΣΤΟΝΑΙΩΝΑ". What does this mean? I assume that there are more spaces between words than I was able to notice (I'm looking at a photo of the sign that I took from three feet away), since Google returns no results for ΔΕΡΗΜΑΚΥΡΙΟΥΜΕΝΕΙΕΙΣΤΟΝΑΙΩΝΑ; it would be an absurdly long word anyway; and Google Translate says that its English translation is "ΔΕΡΗΜΑΚΥΡΙΟΥΜΕΝΕΙΕΙΣΤΟΝΑΙΩΝΑ" also. Nyttend (talk) 00:36, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * It is "τὸ δὲ ῥῆμα Κυρίου μένει εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα", "but the word of the Lord endures forever" (1 Peter 1:25). Lesgles (talk) 00:54, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Re-creating CJK characters
In a question above, someone posted a link to some Chinese text that was displayed as an image. A responder was able to copy and paste the text so it could be displayed here. How was this done? On occasion, I see something written in a CJKlanguage, and I want to be able to copy it here, but I do not know how to re-create the characters. (I can sketch or photograph them and post an image, but how can I actually input the text if I don't know what it says?)  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 01:13, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The image in the Onion article had "alt" text (though I had to use a slightly indirect method of getting at it, which apparently nuked the punctuation). If there's no such pre-made text transcription provided, then you're pretty much out of luck. AnonMoos (talk) 05:40, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The other ways are: (1) use some sort of OCR software, (2) input the characters by drawing them, (3) look up the characters by theirradicals. Lesgles (talk) 07:16, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

would usage3
->Hi! My doubt is on “if only+would “ structure.

->Can we replace “wish+would “with “ if only+would” ?

->How can I replace wish+would in below sentences with if only +would?

1)I wish he would write more often.

2)I wish he would wear a coat.

3)I wish they would change menu.

->What is the difference in meaning of sentences with “wish+would”  and sentences with “if only+would”.

Can you give explanation with examples? — Preceding unsigned comment added byPhanihup (talk • contribs) 02:15, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * "If only they changed their menu, they would get more customers" doesn't necessarily mean you want them to do so (you could be a competitor critiquing them), versus "I wish they would change their menu; they would get more customers." Clarityfiend (talk) 03:10, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The word "only" adds a nuance, though. A competitor might say "If they changed their menu, they would get more customers".  Adding the word "only" means the speaker wants this change to be actually implemented.  The level of desire may be only slight, but it's still there.  Or, if you don't like the word "desire", we could say that they care about it, to some degree.  Competitors care what the other players are doing, but are probably happiest when their opponents are engaging in what they see as the opposite of good business practice.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  20:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * To me, if only means, roughly I really, really wish; i.e. it is a stronger wish than just I wish· --ColinFine (talk) 13:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Help please! I need your remarks to this short paragraph.
I am preparing a short story for my literature class and I have chosen the cold war to be the center of the plot. This paragraph is only a portion of the narrative. Here it goes:

"Comrade perhaps we should talk as I can smell the burning passion I as well have. We both have soaring desires to defeat the capitalists and leave them with nothing. However it is our misfortune that none of us can do it alone. But with our talents fused together, there shall not be a hindrance prevailing our victory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by112.205.86.209 (talk) 16:14, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you trying to use Google Translate to get your story? I have a hard time believing that the same person who wrote your question could have written such awful prose. Looie496 (talk) 17:08, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Looie496: the prose quality of the quoted passage is abysmal, whereas the phrasing of your question is clear and effective.
 * Above and beyond that, you seem to have reproduced several well-known cliches of the era. I don't know if you're old enough to remember the Cold War yourself, but I'm guessing not. All this stuff (in works of fiction) about people calling each other 'comrade' and earnestly boring on about capitalism was terribly hackneyed by the later days of the cold war. People in the Soviet Union did not speak very differently to people elsewhere; if you can't really imagine people you know saying the things your characters are saying, have your characters say something else. I can't imagine anyone in the real world saying the quoted sentences. AlexTiefling (talk) 19:29, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Simplify. Don't use so many high-brow adjectives.  "Comrade, we must talk.  I sense you share my own burning passion--to reduce the capitalists to nothing.  Alone, neither of us can achieve this.  But if we merge our strengths nothing can prevent our victory."  Writing good dialog is very hard.  The best books I have read on writing are Ayn Rand's Art of Fiction andArt of Nonfiction.  Read the reviews of them at Amazon.  They are short books you will want to read in one sitting and reread again for their insights. μηδείς (talk) 19:33, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not sure how much formality you want, but "Comrade, let's be reasonable. I can tell you want to defeat the capitalists just as much as I do.  But you know neither of us can do it alone.  If we work together, however..." is much more readable and natural. μηδείς (talk) 20:39, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Phrase
Is there such a phrase as something like "charging in without a wig"? Simply south...... wearing fish for just 6 years 17:45, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Googleit not. --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  20:31, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Ooh, I know this one. You mean "to go bald headed; to act impetuously, without restraint". The origin of this rather obsolete saying lies with the Marquess of Granby, who led a charge at the Battle of Warburg in 1760, by, amongst others, the 2nd Queens Regiment of Dragoon Guards; " In a celebrated charge, the Marquess lost his wig, giving rise to the expression 'going at it bald-headed'." I couldn't find much current use of the phrase on the web, but did find Sunday Times, Perth WA: 14 January 1940 - "They Will Go Bald-Headed For the Enemy".Alansplodge (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Korean help
The file description of File:Border stone china-corea.jpg is "Inscription stone marking the border of China and North Korea in Jilin" - How is it translated in Korean? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 19:28, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * It says "Jung guk to mun pyeon kyeong". It means the same as the Chinese - both mean "China Tumen Border". The 'to mun' in Korean is the same as the Chinese 'tumen' which refers to the Tumen River, which marks only a part of the border.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  03:41, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "Jung guk to mun pyeon kyeong" - That is Revised Romanization, right? What is the McCune Reischauer? Also, what is the file description ("Inscription stone marking the border of China and North Korea in Jilin") in Korean? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 05:08, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Armenian translation
What is the meaning of the Armenian phrase "Բել դղյակի ձախ ժամն օֆ ազգությանը ցպահանջ չճշտած վնաս էր և փառք" (transliteration: "Bel dǧyaki dzax žamn ōf azgut'yanə c'pahanj č'čštac vnas ēr yev p'ařk' ")? It is used to test Armenian font support, being a pangram, but I can find neither its source nor its meaning. Pokajanje &#124; Talk 22:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Can someone please shed some light on this? Pokajanje &#124; Talk  19:31, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I asked for input at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Armenia. (I did get some words using google translate, but I don't think it's good practice to display the results here if you know nothing about the language, which I don't. The result wasn't satisfactory in any way anyway). ---Sluzzelin talk  22:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Google Translate says it's "Bel castle left off hour call chchshtats loss of nationality and glory." A word-by-word translation gives "Bel chateau left-side time off nationality demand chchshtats damage and glory." Neither looks hopeful. The sentence seems to hinge on the meaning of the word "չճշտած", which I can find used elsewhere but which Google does not seem to know. Pokajanje &#124; Talk  19:08, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It means "Pel/Bel had not adjusted the damage to the left of the castle, "Of," at the hour, up to the requirement of the nationality and glory"
 * It's not a very good translation, so don't take my word for it. It's worded very weirdly/poetically, so it's kind of hard to understand. Thus, I had to kind of radically rearrange stuff and speculate (like օֆ being the castle's name) to make it make sense. Some of the words aren't even real, I don't think… Either that or it's Classical Armenian which is a whole other thing in of itself. Chuck67322 (talk) 08:36, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Arabic help
Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 23:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * For Islamic Center of America, what is http://www.icofa.com/templates/ja_orisite/images/logo.png ?
 * For American Moslem Society (Dearborn Mosque), what is http://www.masjiddearborn.org/templates/ol_crokos/images/logo.png ?


 * The first is "المركز الإسلامي في اميركا " and the second is "الجمعية الإسلامية الامريكية". Adam Bishop (talk) 00:15, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 01:57, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * In the first one of course Adam means امریکا not امیرکا. --Omidinist (talk) 05:02, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the correction! WhisperToMe (talk) 05:11, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought so too, but the logo says "اميركا". Adam Bishop (talk) 12:10, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are right. It looks strange to me. I had never seen "America" be written with this spelling. I apologize to both of you.--Omidinist (talk) 15:56, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That is interesting! I didn't know that there were multiple ways to spell "America" in Arabic. Anyway, thank you very much! What I'll do is, if-when somebody on AR creates the article on the Islamic Center of America I will redirect the other name to the original name WhisperToMe(talk) 17:42, 28 October 2012 (UTC)


 * America often became amrīkā in Arabic, somewhat patterned after the pre-existing continent name afrīqā "Africa" (in fact, the form amrīqā, which resembles it even more closely, used to be common). The spelling اميركا is listed as a Lebanese or Syrian variant in the Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic... -- AnonMoos (talk) 07:26, 29 October 2012 (UTC)