Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 December 28

= December 28 =

Meaning of the word "pussy" in 1931 and before
Harry Roy recorded "My girls pussy" in 1931. I am aware of two meanings word "pussy", one of them being "cat". Does anyone know whether the word had both meanings in 1931? DanielDemaret (talk) 14:51, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=pussy&searchmode=none  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  15:13, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Reading the lyrics, he seems to be using the double meaning of cat and vagina. And if that song appeals to you, you might like this similar cultural gem: .StuRat (talk) 16:06, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Your usual colloquial alternative sense has been in use since 1699 according to the OED. There have been several other meanings attached to the word more recently.  See pussy for some of them.    D b f i r s   17:33, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the answers. I just did not think that if everyone understood both meanings in 1931, that it could have been published. I have a hard time imagining that the BBC would be playing it in 1931. Some possiblities still remain; both meanings may not have been widely known in 1931, it may have been recorded but never played in radios in 1931. Out of curiosity, I checked the word "prick", since I recall a very embarrasing moment many years ago when the elder English people at the party obviously had no idea of the double meaning it had had since Shakespeare's time, and the "younger" (now old) people were all embarrased at the way the elders kept on using it in the meaning of "spot". DanielDemaret (talk) 10:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I Love Little Pussy was included in many 19th-century nursery rhyme books. Many adults would have been aware of double meanings, but this didn't necessarily spoil the poem for children in the Victorian view.  Παντα καθαρα τοις καθαροις and all that... AnonMoos (talk) 12:28, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I see where they substitute "kitty" in some versions. And sliding euphemisms being what they are, the term "kitty" is increasingly acquiring that same double-meaning. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:58, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * You didn't think the BBC would play it? Why, the BBC play Walk on the Wild Side by Lou Reed even though it is stacked full of double entendres! --TammyMoet (talk) 14:51, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * In 1972 yes, not in 1931. DanielDemaret (talk) 00:03, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Regarding censorship, in the US at least, censorship in movies reached it's peak with the production code, from 1930-1968. Before that there were looser standards, and afterwards standards seemed to quickly disappear entirely.  A similar trend may have occurred with music, and also in the UK, although with slightly different time frames.  And note that the double meanings often allow things to pass which would not have been acceptable without it, as the defenders can always argue for the clean meaning.  StuRat (talk) 15:03, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Some of the James Bond films pushed that envelope a bit. They were a little more sly in the old days. Here's a pic from inside the bar in a W.C.Fields movie, the bar being the "black pussy cat café". However, I suspect "pussy" was rather more associated with cats than with naughty bits, in those days. A cat made an appearance in an earlier Fields movie, and Fields casually remarked, "It's a pussy." Then there's term "puss", which used to be slang for "face" as well as meaning a cat (as in "Puss in Boots"). Again, Fields, in another movie, threatening some annoying kid with a "kitten stocking - a sock on the puss!" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:14, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Here's the classic pic of the Barrison Sisters, which ought to eliminate all doubt that the double meaning was known by the 1890s... AnonMoos (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * That kind of settles it, I think :) Thanks. DanielDemaret (talk) 00:05, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Another cultural example from a classic Johnny Carson moment — Tonight Show (condensed version, via Jane Fonda):
 * Zsa-zsa Gabor [cat in lap]: "Would you like to pet my pussy?"
 * Carson: "I'd love to, but you'll have to remove that damn cat"
 * ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 22:08, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I never understood why it was even called that. Is it because it never does what you want it to do?  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  14:35, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I always assumed it had something to do with being soft and furry, as with a cat... and because cats tend to be more associated with women, dogs more with men. However, you may find the etymological paths of the words "puss" and "pussy" of interest. For one thing, "pussy" is diminutive of "puss", which is the original word. And "puss" meaning face (or actually mouth) has an unrelated origin. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:50, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Norwegian translation
Can someone do a good translation of these two passages for me? Thanks.
 * Han nevnes tidligst i 1354-55, og allerede i 1358 fikk han et vanskelig oppdrag av sin far, idet han ble sendt til Nyborg for å forhandle med utsendinger av opprørske jyder. Han ble inndratt i de fleste regjeringshandlinger, og kalte seg Hertug av Lolland, Daners og Slavers sanne Arving.
 * Til gravmælet ble det et sted i Mellom-Europa bestilt et minne som forestiller en ung ridder i full rustning besatt med juveler og omkranset av Danmarks, Hallands og Lollands våpen. Christoffer selv er trolig begravet under kirkegulvet - gravmælet ble først oppstillet i 1878

--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 19:10, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * You may want to contact user NorwegianBlue, who is a native speaker. He has not been around since September, so let´s hope he is not an ex-parrot.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:10, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Not stunned or anything worse, just resting!
 * The text is about Christopher, Duke of Lolland.
 * My translation is not word-by-word. I've consulted other language Wikipedia's to get some context, and made slight modifications based especially on the Swedish entry, in the interest of comprehension. Most important modification: "was appointed Duke" based on Swedish wiki, vs "appointed himself Duke" (Direct translation).


 * He was first mentioned in 1354-55, and was already in 1358 given a difficult assignment by his father, who sent him to Nyborg to negotiate with representatives of the rebellious Jutes. He became involved in government actions, and was appointed Duke of Lolland. He entitled himself as the true heir of Danes and Slavs. For his tomb/headstone, there was somewhere in Central Europe commissioned a memorial depicting a young knight in full armor studded with jewels and surrounded by the heraldry of Denmark, Halland and Lolland. Christoffer himself is probably buried under the church floor - the headstone was first erected in 1878.
 * --NorwegianBluetalk 00:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * The translation above by NorwegianBlue is a very good translation. I would still, just for completeness, like to add a "minor translators note" on the a more primitive "word-by-word" basis. 1. "Was appointed Duke": " could alternatively be read as "called himself Duke". 2. "surrounded by the heraldry of ..." could alternatively be read as "surrounded by the coat of arms of ...". These minor notes notwithstanding, I of course fully support the translation by NorwegianBlue as it stands. DanielDemaret (talk) 10:21, 29 December 2013 (UTC)