Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 July 20

= July 20 =

Arabic help
What is the Arabic in the top left of this image (the Arabic name of "Royal Falcon"?) Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 05:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The first line says الصقر الملكي ("Royal Falcon"), the line under it says للطيران ("airlines"). Gabbe (talk) 07:04, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 21:35, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Help with a Chinese line I can't understand
I'm having trouble translating this line to English, and Im not really sure what it means too. Can some professional Chinese speaker help? The line is as follows, "我手写我口，古岂能拘牵!". Thanks. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 13:24, 20 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Not a Chinese speaker here; just noting for context that the saying is mentioned and attributed in our article on Huang Zunxian, where a rough paraphrase is offered and a ref to a Chinese source is given. I'm guessing the first part might be something like "I write as I speak"? Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:36, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * (The first phrase is glossed here as "My hand writes [what] my mouth [speaks].") Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:48, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahah like I would not know... I'm the one who put it there.... I need an English translation to fill in. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 15:00, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I more or less can figure the first part, just don't know what on Earth "古岂" is! ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 15:01, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * My stab: "My hand records my mouth, the ancients shall not impede." --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:37, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * For your specific query: you need to read the whole passage to understand what the author menat by "古" - he sets up a dichotomy between "the present" and "the past" (古), or "the new" vs "the old", or "the modern" vs "the ancient", in this particular case meaning new, creative, inventive writing, versus orthodox or classic formulations, which enjoy prestige (he argues) only because of age. In this line, he expresses his view that blind respect for "the old" is not justified.
 * "岂" is not to be read in isolation here. "岂能" is an idiomatic phrase which means roughly "how can X do Y" (in the sense of "X cannot do Y"), as in (a Communist Party official might say) "How can we halt this important civic development because of one stubborn fellow who wouldn't sell his house? Call in the bulldozers!" --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 18:26, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, I have a better understanding now. Thanks! ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 11:57, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Translating Latin song lines
"Carpe Noctem" from Tanz der Vampire has some Latin singing in it, and I can't fully understand the following verse...


 * Carpe noctem lamia! Decet dinem exsecrari.
 * Sanquim suga, belua!﻿ Debet pravum exsequari.
 * Inquiem perpetuum dona nobis, Satanas.
 * Bestia diaboli, dona nobis damnationem.

Can someone translate it for me, please? 87.112.25.12 (talk) 14:06, 20 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It's Latin-ish, but there's mistakes in it, which seem to be intentional. It probably should say something like:
 * Seize the night, lamia! It is right to curse the day.
 * Suck the blood, beast! We must follow the depraved.
 * Give us perpetual unrest, Satan.
 * Beast of the devil, give us damnation.
 * It should read more like "Carpe noctem lamia! Decet diem exsecrari. Sanguinem suge, belua! Debet pravum exsequi. Inquiem perpetuam dona nobis, Satanas. Bestia diaboli, dona nobis damnationem." Adam Bishop (talk) 14:48, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Ja, I'm not surprised that there are mistakes. Thanks for the help! 87.112.25.12 (talk) 15:12, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Old Pet Peeve
Why do Americans say 'different than', when us Brits say 'different from'? 'Different' is not a comparative adjective. I would accept it in such a sentence as, "Apples are different from oranges, but cucumbers are more different [from oranges] than apples." Anyway, seriously, where did this come from? Is there an early citation of it? KägeTorä - (影虎) ( TALK )  22:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Fowler mentions the conflict between "different from" and "different to", without taking a definite stance on which is the more correct, although preferring "different from". (his text). I'm sure his views on "than" would be similar. Tevildo (talk) 22:46, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Not all Americans say "different than", and plenty of Brits say "different to", which strikes me as even worse. The argument is made that "different than" is okay when followed by a phrase, "This is different than I expected", but the error here is omitting "from what"; "This is different from what I expected" is logical and proper. Of course there is also the corresponding "similar than" construction: "Her tiny big-nailed feet were similar than horse's hooves."  Similar than the Belgians say, soon we'll all be speaking bad English as the universal tongue. μηδείς (talk) 01:50, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Mencken in The American Language suggests that "different /from/", along with "different /than/", is an American form. 180.148.3.206 (talk) 00:14, 22 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It does make a certain amount of sense, though; different isn't in the comparative degree but it does imply a form of comparison. And American English isn't the only language to use its word for than after its word for different; German and (I believe) Welsh do too. Angr (talk) 06:49, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I hear "different to" all the time in Britain now. Nigel Farage said it on the news this morning. I noticed the preposition, didn't notice what he was talking about, not hard to guess though. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:46, 22 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Then there are the people who say things like "These are both different to each other". As if it were possible for A to be different from B, but B be the same as A.
 * Then there the people who say "The students in this class come from 17 different countries". As if it were possible for them to come from 17 identical countries.  (speaking of peeves) --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  10:37, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Not surprisingly (well, I really was a bit surprised), we have an article on pet peeves. Interestingly, it doesn't mention linguistic matters among its examples of pet peeves. It concentrates on "disrespect, manners, personal hygiene, relationships, and family issues". Do those active in this thread want to help fix that? HiLo48 (talk) 11:58, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * To differ is to "bear away". Logically one bears away from, not to, and certainly not than. It is curious, though, what pet stores carry peeves. μηδείς (talk) 21:07, 23 July 2013 (UTC)