Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 September 3

= September 3 =

Set
I believe "Set" to be the word with the most meanings in the English language, but exactly how many meanings of this word are there? ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 13:25, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Define "meanings". Do you mean the number of meanings listed after the word in something like Webster's? Or do you mean multiple shades of meaning which Webster might list only once? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:01, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * If you look at the word origins, most of these multiple shades of meaning collapse down to about 2. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:04, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe what you heard is that "set" was the word with the highest number of separate lexical definitions in one or several reputable English dictionaries. I've read that about "set" too, and also about "jack". I couldn't find a list on Wikipedia (I really expected to find one). I did find some bloggish comments on this, but no reliable source so far. I'm sure it's findable though. ---Sluzzelin talk  14:12, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * According to our article on the Oxford English Dictionary, "the longest entry in the OED2 was for the verb set, which required 60,000 words to describe some 430 senses". Deor (talk) 14:25, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * "While we let the cement pieces of the giant chess set set, set set people on the purple sofa and pliant ones on the orange divan."(Ian Mc Bee) ("A SOUP CAN CAN CAN-CAN; CAN YOU?") This one and every other example given in that article, about a Will Shortz challenge to listeners of NPR, were new to me. Enjoy :-). ---Sluzzelin talk  14:35, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * New stuff for my List of word repetitions. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 15:32, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Daydreaming at Night
Hello everyone! I'm wondering this time about daydreaming... but at night. What would this be called? Night dreaming? Thanks! -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 15:42, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * If asleep, dreaming... If awake, probably still daydreaming, excepting an argument from etymology, the word has connotations of drifting off while awake, not necessarily during daylight hours. (see wiktionary) MChesterMC (talk) 15:53, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok. So it doesn't necessarily have to happen during daylight - weird. So I guess I daydream at night, then. Thanks! :) -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 16:12, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Hypnagogia is the technical term for the dream-like sensations many people experience before actually falling asleep, incidentally. Tevildo (talk) 17:29, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Cool - I didn't know that! Though in my case it's completely voluntary. -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 17:33, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * This might occur in the wakeful interval of segmented sleep.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 17:43, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * So, how about nocturnal emissions? What are they called during the day? μηδείς (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Spermatorrhea. Tevildo (talk) 22:57, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That's quite interesting actually. When I saw Medeis's post earlier (on an untrusted computer, so can't log on) I thought "well, what's the opposite of nocturnal?" - "solar?" - and ended up with solar emission... which made me think of solar flare... ;) -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 01:00, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Diurnal is to nocturnal, as solar is to lunar. (I've seen a few lunatic emissions around here.)  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  01:05, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah! So that's the word; I had never heard of that before. Thanks, Jack! And yes, many of us here have probably seen more than our fair share here on the ref desk... :) -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 01:11, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You might also be interested in crepuscular then. It splits the difference.  Dismas |(talk) 01:13, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ... and at the antipodean point of the day, what Homer referred to as the "rosy fingered dawn" (otherwise known as the title of a lesbian love story), it's auroral. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  01:27, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, guys for all these new words... now I need to find somewhere to use them! :) And if anyone ever says that people don't learn from the smalltext conversations one these desks, point them here! -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 01:33, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Perversely, I'm reminded of I can write no more today … who knows to what nightmares I might wake (the last words Morris West ever wrote, in his unfinished novel The Last Confession, based on the trials and imprisonment of Giordano Bruno). --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  23:07, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Interesting quote... reminds me of the saying I've heard "wake up to a nightmare" - at least I rarely get those... -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 01:00, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

@ Jack, actually, the proper analogy is solar is to lunar as duirnal is to mensual. The moon is not solely nocturnal, nor is the night locked to the moon's rhythm, but the month thereto. μηδείς (talk) 21:51, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Duirnal/diurnal almost reminds me of a dual urinal, whatever that is.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:41, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You may be thinking of a dyed urinal cake. μηδείς (talk) 18:57, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Mmm, yummy. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Usage: suggest, recommend, advise + me
Greetings, fellow Wikipedians! I have a question related to the usage the words: suggest, advise and recommend, when using them with "me".

1. Can you suggest me a dictionary?

2. Can you recommend me a dictionary?

3. Can you advise me a dictionary?

Also, making a slight variation to the above examples, are they standard in usage?

4. Can you suggest a dictionary to me?

5. Can you recommend a dictionary to me?

6. Can you advise a dictionary to me?

I would appreciate if you could point out the errors (if any) in the six sentences. Thanks in advance! ReconteurMemoirs (talk) 20:37, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The direct object of the transitive verbs to suggest and to recommend is normally the suggestion or recommendation, so "me" is normally the indirect object. Thus 4 and 5 are preferred, and 1 sounds very odd (I would regard "suggest me" as incorrect in UK usage), but 2 seems to be idiomatic, so I would regard it as equivalent to 5.  The object of advise can be either the person advised or (sometimes) the advice, but not normally both, so both 3 and 6 sound odd.  There might be regional differences in usage.  I would ask "Can you advise me about a dictionary".    D b f i r s   21:27, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I would drop the "to me" (because that's understood, unless they're asking you to enlighten some third party), and just ask "Can you suggest/recommend a dictionary?". --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:03, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree with the above comments, and suggest that 4 and 5 would be more natural with for instead of to. μηδείς (talk) 22:12, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, those improvements sound right in this part of the world, too. I wondered if there might be regional variations in idiom, but it seems not.    D b f i r s   07:12, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Looking for word
I need a word halfway between "encourage" and "coerce", meaning to try to get someone to do something, using some form of carrot, stick, etc. -- Ypnypn (talk) 20:48, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Influence (with integrity, of course)? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:00, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * If you're using a carrot rather than a stick, I'd suggest entice. Deor (talk) 21:02, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Cajole, inveigle? ---Sluzzelin talk  21:29, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Or coax, perhaps? Deor (talk) 22:07, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Threatening to strangle them with coaxial cable? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:30, 4 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Something like "blarney" comes to mind. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:35, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I've been "volun-told" to do things at work, if you don't mind neologisms (though there are several Google hits of the word). Matt Deres (talk) 01:17, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * In this kind of situation, I tend to hear "I have been volunteered" (as opposed to "I have volunteered") MChesterMC (talk) 08:32, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the asker should provide us with more context. A detailed description of the situation will help, I suppose. ReconteurMemoirs (talk) 01:30, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, I think the OP could be persuaded.196.214.78.114 (talk) 08:47, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Or induced. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:21, 4 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Prod, arm-twist, or jawbone. Duoduoduo (talk) 17:16, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised no one else resurrected this oldie: "Q: Why is the prairie so flat? A: Because the sun sets on it every night." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:28, 7 September 2013 (UTC)