Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 April 18

= April 18 =

make the list
I have a question concerning the phrase "make the list" in the following sentence: "Jonah Berger monitored the most e-mailed stories produced by the New York Times for six months and found that positive stories were more likely to make the list than negative ones." I wonder what the phrase exactly means. A lot of thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.202.187.153 (talk) 00:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It means that, on the list of the most emailed stories produced by the New York Times, there are more positive stories than negative ones. If something makes the list, it means it is on said list.  If it does not make the list, it isn't on it.  -- Jayron  32  00:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you familiar with the idea of "making" in the sense of reaching a goal? If not, see Wiktionary's entry for "make", point 14.  Just as the person saying the quotation "made it" to Cincinnati, Berger's stories "made it" to the list.  Nyttend (talk) 05:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe sense 19(c) of make in the Merriam-Webster dictionary online is what the OP is looking for. The example with Cincinatti is slightly different and corresponds to sense 19(a), from which the other senses are likely descended. I would probably say that stories made it "onto the list" rather than "to the list" as Nyttend does.
 * 19(a): reach, attain  —often used with it 
 * (b) : to gain the rank of 
 * (c) : to gain a place on or in  
 * (d) : to succeed in providing or obtaining  184.171.219.229 (talk) 06:47, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Triplets of triplets
How would one commonly refer to the plural equivalent of "pairs of twins" for triplets (as in humans born in multiple births). Since "triplets" normally could mean sets of three, but in this context actually means the individuals, it probably won't work. Does one have to use something generic like "sets" or "groups", or is there another way of saying it? ---Sluzzelin talk  06:17, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * "Sets of triplets" is the usual expression. See, for example, list of people with the most children.--Shantavira|feed me 07:27, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Anytime a multiple birth happens, the "group" may be referred to as a "set". Set of twins, set of triplets, etc. There are cases of women giving birth to more than one set of twins at the same time. More than one set of triplets at a time, I haven't heard of, but I guess it's possible. OttawaAC (talk) 07:34, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I take it you mean more than one set of identical twins at the same time, since, if 4 were born at the same time, each pair would be fraternal twins. StuRat (talk) 12:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Unless you're asking whether a "trio of triplets" would work? Or a "quartet of quadruplets"? OttawaAC (talk) 07:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Or a "triad of triplets". "Threefold" might work in some context, too: "She had a threefold set of triplets". StuRat (talk) 12:53, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * By "more than one set of twins at the same time" do you mean two identical pairs that are fraternal to each other, or what? —Tamfang (talk) 09:12, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * One could facetiously say batches. —Tamfang (talk) 09:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I don' have to show you any stinking batches! Deor (talk) 12:23, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * It's even funnier (for humans) if you call each one a litter: "She had three litters of triplets". Of course, with other animals, that's not so uncommon. StuRat (talk) 12:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you, all. I was actually thinking of applying it to completely unrelated sets of triplets. Such as counting the groups showing up at a triplet get-together, or comparing how many trios of triplets have been successful through various fields of entertainment. Thank you for the trio and threefold suggestions, which I couldn't come up with, but I guess writing a "tr___ of triplets" or a "thr____ of triplets" is too alliterative/redundant. Thanks for the zoology and farming suggestions too, but I would never use those myself. I have a friend who invariably wraps her curiosity about other women's pregnancy in phrases which might be translated as "When's she finally gonna drop?" (as in meaning #27 of "drop" (verb)) ("Wänn wirft sie ändlich?"). It's ok for her, but not for me :-) ---Sluzzelin talk  17:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Or you can take the reverse approach and ask "How long ago did you get knocked up ?" :-) StuRat (talk) 17:22, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Whenever a married woman or one with a long-term male partner announces she's pregnant, I congratulate her, of course, and enquire politely as to who the father is. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:30, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * You assume too much, Jack. you should politely ask if she knows who the father is. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 13:08, 21 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, indeed. Where were my manners?  I'm sure your well-received suggestion would exponentially increase my chance of earning brownie points.  Or getting my face slapped.  I like living dangerously.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:54, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I prefer to do that when a man tells me his wife is pregnant. Then when he says he's the father, I act surprised and say "What a coincidence, you're her husband AND her baby's father, what are the chances of that !". StuRat (talk) 01:10, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Correct word
This question is somewhat related to the question immediately above. Quite coincidentally, I had planned on asking this question even before seeing the above question. Is there a generic term for a child (or adult) who is a member of a multiple birth (for example, a twin, a triplet, etc.)? Let's say that Person A is one of a set of twins; Person B is one of a set of triplets; and Person C is one of a set of quadruplets. Is there a correct word that would fill in this sentence? A, B, and C are __________s. I am looking for one word (a noun), as opposed to some variation of a phrase such as "individuals from multiple births". In other words, if a room were filled with a bunch of twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc., we could say that the room is filled with __________s. What is that generic word for such a group? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:05, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The lead of our Twin article says that "the general term for one offspring of a multiple birth is multiple" (and cites a Web page that uses the word so), though I can't say I've ever heard that term used in the wild. Deor (talk) 23:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I'd add a bit more: "multiple birth siblings", although that sounds like it could include their singleton sibs, too. StuRat (talk) 02:14, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * To me, that would imply that they are related to each other. The question clearly implies that they need not be. In my experience (nothing much) the usual trick if you are writing a long enough article is just to coin a term, when confronted with any quirky situation. Otherwise, like here, you can use the official (but unknown) term. But keep coming up with these interesting questions ;) IBE (talk) 10:02, 20 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Yes, my inquisitive nature does lend to some interesting/quirky questions at times.   Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:03, 24 April 2014 (UTC)


 * [One of a] litter, or litter-mates.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 11:35, 20 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Those also imply that they are siblings. I was more concerned in my original question about a room full of strangers.  They would be called __________s.  Like, for example, let's say that there was a convention of twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc.  Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:19, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, all! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:03, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

"And" at the beginning of a paragraph
Sometimes I find the conjunction "and" is put at the beginning of a paragraph. I am not sure about the usage of it. Could anyone explain this point for me? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.202.187.153 (talk) 23:46, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not clear what you are asking. Are you looking for somebody to tell you that this is, or isn't "correct"? Or are you having problems understanding what is meant? ---ColinFine (talk) 00:01, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * And did those feet in ancient time is a well-known example. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:07, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * An 'initial conjunction' used to begin a sentence is grammatically fine. A bit of an unusual rhetorical flourish, but there's nothing incorrect about its use. OttawaAC (talk) 00:30, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Some of my English teachers said there was. Doesn't mean I think the same way. I know I use "And" at the start of sentences. Haven't observed myself using it at the start of paragraphs, but maybe I do. HiLo48 (talk) 00:42, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The conjunction "and" corresponds to the adverb "also". The conjunction "or" corresponds to the adverb "alternatively".  The conjunction "but" corresponds to the adverb "however".  The conjunction "so" corresponds to the adverb "consequently".  See Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 December 31.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 00:48, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Here's an example of how I might use it:


 * "I will show the 5 reasons why..."


 * "First..."


 * "Then..."


 * "Also..."


 * "And..."


 * "Finally..."


 * So, I just might use it as an alternative to "Also", to avoid repetition. StuRat (talk) 01:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

In ancient Hebrew, starting a sentence with wə- "and/but" is very common. There are even special verb forms consisting of a coalescence of clause initial "and" + following verb (common since default word order is VSO) which have somewhat different meanings than ordinary verbs... AnonMoos (talk) 16:34, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * It also reminds me of ''Columbo': "And just one more question...". StuRat (talk) 16:21, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

There are heaps of such sentences in the Genesis:. -- 160.62.10.13 (talk) 05:45, 24 April 2014 (UTC)