Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 April 4

= April 4 =

Etymology of "order" -- illogical?
How did the Latin ordinem come to mean order, as in monastic order? Order as a series of arrangements seems to be the more logical etymology, but where in the world did people get the etymology of order to refer to a specific branch of monasteries? 140.254.227.76 (talk) 15:58, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Etymonline has this to say on the matter. -- Jayron  32  16:18, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The OED entry on "order" contains:
 * "II. A rank or class of people or things (characterized by similarity of structure but not necessarily by sequence).
 * 5. A body of people living by common consent under the same religious, moral, or social regulations and discipline."


 * (in case it is not clear, meaning 5 is one instance of class II of meanings). This doesn't explicitly answer your question, but it seems to me that it implicitly does so. Incidentally, looking for "logic" in language is likely to be fairly fruitless. There is some, certainly, but it's rather unpredictable where you'll find it and where you won't. --ColinFine (talk) 16:26, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The Passover seder likewise means order or arrangement. Regarding logic, "order" can be thought of as any kind of sequence or hierarchy or arrangement. It's totally logical. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:13, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * My Latin dictionary says the oldest meaning is "a straight row or line, a regular series." From there it was applied to a company of soldiers (compare rank and file), and metaphorically to an organizing principle; both of these senses can contribute to the sense of a group of people living according to a specific set of rules, which is what a monastic order is. —Tamfang (talk) 04:53, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Two Chinese questions
1. In File:Taiping_Cable_Car.JPG there is a sign stating "Three hour waiting zone". The Chinese I know: "3小时??区" - What are the missing characters? 2. What are the Chinese characters in this picture? http://www.interlink-direct.co.uk/templates/ja_ruby/images/interlink-logo.png

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 17:27, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * From Google Translate, "three hour waiting zone" translates to 3小时等候区 -- I don't know if this is correct.--Dreamahighway (talk) 22:53, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It's hard for me to tell from the picture. Thank you for trying to find it out! WhisperToMe (talk) 02:54, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It certainly is 3小时等候区 in the picture. -- Vmenkov (talk) 04:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 10:07, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The characters in the second picture are 億達行, or in simplified characters, 亿达行. Their website is here.  --Bowlhover (talk) 18:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I see. Thank you so much! Do you know what the Pinyin is? I can't tell which Pinyin is used for 行 in this case... WhisperToMe (talk) 07:51, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * It's presumably yì dá háng. 行 probably means company/industry in this case, in which case it would be pronounced háng.  --Bowlhover (talk) 15:47, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Medical terminology
There's a type of surgical procedure which involves inserting a tube or catheter or some such into an artery in the groin, and going up into the heart, for example to insert a balloon. Does anyone here happen to know what the term for that kind of procedure is? Thank you. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:32, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Balloon angioplasty via percutaneous surgery, specifically the Seldinger technique. StuRat (talk) 17:34, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I think that would be it, in general terms. In this case, it has to do with trying to get a weak heart valve to work, in lieu of replacement. After posing the question, it occurred to me that catheterization was what I was looking for. All related, methinks. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:41, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Of course that has a broader meaning, including things like a urinary catheter. In any case, can we mark this Q resolved ? StuRat (talk) 17:43, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Japanese help: Are the authors of this report independent of the Liceo Mexicano Japonese?
Can someone please check if the authors of this report are independent of the Liceo Mexicano Japones? The document and info are in Japanese.
 * Martínez Saito, Sakura (齋藤 さくら) and Kyoko Tanaka (田中 京子). "日本発の国際学校で学んだ子どもたちは今 : 「日本メキシコ学院」の二文化教育の成果を探る/What has become of the Children who studied at Liceo Mexicano Japones? Outcomes of Bi-cultural Education" (Archive). 16-Oct-2006. Journal of the Education Center for International Students (ECIS, 名古屋大学留学生センター紀要), Education Center for International Students, Nagoya University (名古屋大学留学生センター). v.4, 2006, p.29-42. (Information). ISSN: 1348-6616.

Also, I hope you don't mind, but please check to make sure the source is reliable and usable

Thank you, WhisperToMe (talk) 18:42, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The pdf file says that Tanaka was a teacher from 1984 to 1987, mainly teaching ja to Mexican students and Saito was born and raised in Mexico and had been a student of the school for 10 years, from 1982 to 1992. But there's no mention that Saito was Japanese Mexican or Japanese in Mexico. It's RS. Oda Mari (talk) 07:50, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you Mari. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:41, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * By the way, Mari, I am assuming none of the information/data came from Saito's term as a student. Did any data originate from Tanaka's term as a teacher 1984-1987? If not, would it be fair to say that it is "independent" in that the data did not come from the women from when they had association with the school? By the way, I posted something about this here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Japan - would it be acceptable to post this request for Japanese speakers here too? WhisperToMe (talk) 11:35, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * They studied the students' compositions of the first 15 years (1977 to 1992) and sent out questionnaires to 120 graduates before 1995 in December 2005 and received 18 replies. Probably some of the data originated from Tanaka's term. I was busy yesterday. I'll see the Brazilian sources. Please wait. Oda Mari (talk) 09:32, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I really appreciate this! WhisperToMe (talk) 12:05, 9 April 2014 (UTC)